6 ms·

You seem to know what you're talking about - do you know what the end goal of the work in this field is? Is it working towards nuclear fusion as an energy sourc

You seem to know what you're talking about - do you know what the end goal of the work in this field is? Is it working towards nuclear fusion as an energy source?

NamTaf 8y ago
Sustainable high-temperature plasma is what we need to create fusion as an energy source. Current fusion processes rely on pulsing a very short instant of high temperature. This creates a brief instance of fusion, but takes heaps more energy than that quick moment of fusion releases. Thus, it's a net negative of energy. One way to do this that the US uses for nuclear weapons research is to zap a small bit of gas with a tonne of high energy lasers all at the same instant. A high temperature plasma represents a continuous supply of fusing atoms. The current research at ITER, this place, etc. are attempts to create a persistent environment for fusion. If they can do that, then it creates an environment where research can focus on 1) reduce the energy required to hold it at that temperature (which includes limiting how much plasma leaks out, since leaking plasma drops the temperature), and 2) work out ways to extract the energy created by fusion. As I understand (and I could be wrong, it's been years since I last read about it), ITER plans to generate a net-negative energy situation (i.e. it'll never produce energy, just consume it) but hopes to create a sustainable plasma field at temperatures that cause fusion.
- zaarn 8y ago
  ITER will never produce electric energy but they plan to achieve Q=5, ie, output 5 times more energy than put in. The more important work on ITER is work around enabling actual power stations using Q=5 and developing the tech to maintain operating fusion reactors (remote robots, etc.)
  - therein 8y ago
    At that point can't you just store the output current in supercapacitors for later use anyway? You can even feed it into the machine itself. Supercapacitors easily have better than 20% efficiency for each cycle.
    - zaarn 8y ago
      No, ITER doesn't have any planned way to make electricity, the power it outputs will be largely thermal and radiative. Engineers will likely put up a cooling system to measure the thermal output, especially after putting up the various ways to turn the major neutron radiation into heat (which is a fun way to produce energy with rare materials as a byproduct). DEMO, to my knowledge, will then include an actual electric generator to be hooked up to the fusion core.
txcwpalpha 8y ago
The specific EAST reactor [1] mentioned in the article is a testbed that will enable new technologies to be used on the ITER project. The ITER project [2] is currently the largest fusion power research project underway (and the largest reactor under construction). ITER's goal is to provide research that enables new technologies to be used on the DEMO project. The DEMO project's goal [3] is to provide commercially available power plants utilizing nuclear fusion. From ITER's wikipedia page: >The goal of ITER is to demonstrate the scientific and technological feasibility of fusion energy for peaceful use. It is the latest and largest of more than 100 fusion reactors built since the 1950s. ITER's planned successor, DEMO, is expected to be the first fusion reactor to produce electricity in an experimental environment. DEMO's anticipated success is expected to lead to full-scale electricity-producing fusion power stations and future commercial reactors. And from DEMO's wikipedia page: >As a prototype commercial fusion reactor, DEMO could make fusion energy available by 2033. 1: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Experimental_Advanced_Superconducting_Tokamak https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Experimental_Advanced_Supercon... 2: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ITER https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ITER 3: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DEMOnstration_Power_Station https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DEMOnstration_Power_Station
- deleted 8y ago
  [deleted]
- miemo 8y ago
  but 2033 is only 15 years away, not 20
  - Someone 8y ago
    I think calling 2033 highly unlikely would be an understatement. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ITER https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ITER: ”Initial plasma experiments are scheduled to begin in 2025, with full deuterium–tritium fusion experiments starting in 2035.” So, according to Wikipedia, DEMO will build on ITER’s results, but will produce energy before ITER’s first real fusion experiment starts.
    - 8y ago

You seem to know what you're talking about - do you know what the end goal of the work in this field is? Is it working towards nuclear fusion as an energy source?

NamTaf 8y ago

Sustainable high-temperature plasma is what we need to create fusion as an energy source. Current fusion processes rely on pulsing a very short instant of high temperature. This creates a brief instance of fusion, but takes heaps more energy than that quick moment of fusion releases. Thus, it's a net negative of energy. One way to do this that the US uses for nuclear weapons research is to zap a small bit of gas with a tonne of high energy lasers all at the same instant. A high temperature plasma represents a continuous supply of fusing atoms. The current research at ITER, this place, etc. are attempts to create a persistent environment for fusion. If they can do that, then it creates an environment where research can focus on 1) reduce the energy required to hold it at that temperature (which includes limiting how much plasma leaks out, since leaking plasma drops the temperature), and 2) work out ways to extract the energy created by fusion. As I understand (and I could be wrong, it's been years since I last read about it), ITER plans to generate a net-negative energy situation (i.e. it'll never produce energy, just consume it) but hopes to create a sustainable plasma field at temperatures that cause fusion.

zaarn 8y ago
ITER will never produce electric energy but they plan to achieve Q=5, ie, output 5 times more energy than put in. The more important work on ITER is work around enabling actual power stations using Q=5 and developing the tech to maintain operating fusion reactors (remote robots, etc.)
- therein 8y ago
  At that point can't you just store the output current in supercapacitors for later use anyway? You can even feed it into the machine itself. Supercapacitors easily have better than 20% efficiency for each cycle.
  - zaarn 8y ago
    No, ITER doesn't have any planned way to make electricity, the power it outputs will be largely thermal and radiative. Engineers will likely put up a cooling system to measure the thermal output, especially after putting up the various ways to turn the major neutron radiation into heat (which is a fun way to produce energy with rare materials as a byproduct). DEMO, to my knowledge, will then include an actual electric generator to be hooked up to the fusion core.

txcwpalpha 8y ago

The specific EAST reactor [1] mentioned in the article is a testbed that will enable new technologies to be used on the ITER project. The ITER project [2] is currently the largest fusion power research project underway (and the largest reactor under construction). ITER's goal is to provide research that enables new technologies to be used on the DEMO project. The DEMO project's goal [3] is to provide commercially available power plants utilizing nuclear fusion. From ITER's wikipedia page: >The goal of ITER is to demonstrate the scientific and technological feasibility of fusion energy for peaceful use. It is the latest and largest of more than 100 fusion reactors built since the 1950s. ITER's planned successor, DEMO, is expected to be the first fusion reactor to produce electricity in an experimental environment. DEMO's anticipated success is expected to lead to full-scale electricity-producing fusion power stations and future commercial reactors. And from DEMO's wikipedia page: >As a prototype commercial fusion reactor, DEMO could make fusion energy available by 2033. 1: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Experimental_Advanced_Superconducting_Tokamak https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Experimental_Advanced_Supercon... 2: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ITER https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ITER 3: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DEMOnstration_Power_Station https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DEMOnstration_Power_Station

deleted 8y ago
[deleted]
miemo 8y ago
but 2033 is only 15 years away, not 20
- Someone 8y ago
  I think calling 2033 highly unlikely would be an understatement. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ITER https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ITER: ”Initial plasma experiments are scheduled to begin in 2025, with full deuterium–tritium fusion experiments starting in 2035.” So, according to Wikipedia, DEMO will build on ITER’s results, but will produce energy before ITER’s first real fusion experiment starts.
  - 8y ago