4 ms·

I wonder how it breaks down for motorcycles. Some part of the danger is because you're vulnerable and you're riding among big metal objects (cars). Another part

I wonder how it breaks down for motorcycles. Some part of the danger is because you're vulnerable and you're riding among big metal objects (cars). Another part of the stats would be explained by dangerous riding (speeding and such). The other part would be that motorcycles are just quite dangerous by themselves given that there's no crumple zones or shielding when you're on a bike. Autonomous vehicles should eventually result in cyclists and motorcyclists being safer, but perhaps not completely.

phinnaeus 8y ago
Stability is another huge concern for motorcycles. If you lose traction on just one of your wheels, you could crash. While losing traction on 2 or maybe even 3 wheels in a car is much easier to recover.
Gustomaximus 8y ago
Before I went for a motorbike licence I research some of these stats. - A decent proportion of accidents are on unregistered bikes or riding while drinking. - Speeding, as always - A big risk factor is older people returning to motorbike riding as they remember their old skills but dont have them any more. - Having ABS is something like a 30% accident reduction. There's still a bunch of risk on a bike but for someone sensible you can improve your odds a fair way. Though I guess you could argue that personality would likely have well reduced odd than average in a car too so its still a relative increase...
- rconti 8y ago
  When I started riding, I noticed the same thing. The HURT report shows unlicensed/uninsured young people (I was 28 when I got my license) as being so massively overrepresented in motorcycle injuries that it was mind boggling.
  - raverbashing 8y ago
    Sad, but it also means more organ donors.
freerobby 8y ago
If you read the report, you'll find motorcyclists are more likely than car drivers to speed, drive drunk, and do both at the same time. And they frequently don't wear helmets. There's no way to make motorcycling as safe as driving, but last time I did the math I found you can recover almost an entire order of magnitude just by obeying the law and wearing a full face helmet. And there's plenty more you can do from there -- take an MSF course, avoid congested areas during your first year on two wheels, and get a modern bike with ABS. Statistically speaking, the benefits of all these things are compounding.
- Swizec 8y ago
  According to my recent MSF course somewhere around 60% of motorcycle fatalities and serious injuries are self inflicted. Some 40% involve more than 0 alcohol. Nothing made me feel safer on my new motorcycle than learning that stat. Don’t do dumb shit and your personal danger per mile can be quite okay. Also you’re most likely to die in your first and your third year. Then the probability drops off a cliff.
  - wingerlang 8y ago
    First and third? What about the second
    - Swizec 8y ago
      Lower chance than first and third. First year you’re a newb and likely to make mistakes. Third year you get confident and sloppy and likely to make mistakes. Most common way to die is running off the road when going too fast into a corner. Followed by being too aggressive in intersections and failing to avoid other people making mistakes or not seeing you. If a car forces right of way and you could’ve stopped but didn’t, it’s your fault. Even tho legally it’s their fault but you’re the one with less crumple zones so you gotta drive defensively.
    - sowbug 8y ago
      Likely the same effect as airplane pilots, where the 100th through 250th flight hours of your career are the most dangerous. Stage 1: unskilled, unaware => die Stage 2: unskilled, aware => not die Stage 3: unskilled, confident => die Stage 4: skilled => live Difference is that certificated flight instructors won't let you solo until you're well into Stage 2. But any noob squid with a credit card can ride off a lot with a liter-class bike, no questions asked.
balladeer 8y ago
Simply put - you are exposed. Anything (accident) happens you fall and hit something - ground or otherwise, or are run over at times, again because you are exposed. You lost balance? Same. You just got on sand at even half the normal speed? You might still fall and hit. Wet surface, mud, speak breaks, same same. You hit another bike? Same (might be for both). You hit car? Same for you, but not for the car driver. When the bike falls you are the one who takes the hit. Most of this doesn't happen in a car. Just my observations as a biker. Yes, riding at sane speeds reduces these risks a lot.
breatheoften 8y ago
I also remember being told statistics when I did the MSF training course many years ago that a very high percentage of single vehicle motorcycle fatalities involved substance use. It was really really high - 80+% or something. I rode motorcycle for 8 years as my only mode of transportation and can clearly remember how little alcohol or marijuana was needed to notice a significant performance degradation (much more noticeable effects from small amount of substance use than when driving a car).
- Klathmon 8y ago
  Yeah, from what I read when I first started riding, there are a few really easy things that can significantly reduce your risk: * Wear a goddamn helmet * Don't drink and ride * Don't speed * Get a bike with ABS

phinnaeus 8y ago

Stability is another huge concern for motorcycles. If you lose traction on just one of your wheels, you could crash. While losing traction on 2 or maybe even 3 wheels in a car is much easier to recover.

Gustomaximus 8y ago

Before I went for a motorbike licence I research some of these stats. - A decent proportion of accidents are on unregistered bikes or riding while drinking. - Speeding, as always - A big risk factor is older people returning to motorbike riding as they remember their old skills but dont have them any more. - Having ABS is something like a 30% accident reduction. There's still a bunch of risk on a bike but for someone sensible you can improve your odds a fair way. Though I guess you could argue that personality would likely have well reduced odd than average in a car too so its still a relative increase...

rconti 8y ago
When I started riding, I noticed the same thing. The HURT report shows unlicensed/uninsured young people (I was 28 when I got my license) as being so massively overrepresented in motorcycle injuries that it was mind boggling.
- raverbashing 8y ago
  Sad, but it also means more organ donors.

freerobby 8y ago

If you read the report, you'll find motorcyclists are more likely than car drivers to speed, drive drunk, and do both at the same time. And they frequently don't wear helmets. There's no way to make motorcycling as safe as driving, but last time I did the math I found you can recover almost an entire order of magnitude just by obeying the law and wearing a full face helmet. And there's plenty more you can do from there -- take an MSF course, avoid congested areas during your first year on two wheels, and get a modern bike with ABS. Statistically speaking, the benefits of all these things are compounding.

Swizec 8y ago
According to my recent MSF course somewhere around 60% of motorcycle fatalities and serious injuries are self inflicted. Some 40% involve more than 0 alcohol. Nothing made me feel safer on my new motorcycle than learning that stat. Don’t do dumb shit and your personal danger per mile can be quite okay. Also you’re most likely to die in your first and your third year. Then the probability drops off a cliff.
- wingerlang 8y ago
  First and third? What about the second
  - Swizec 8y ago
    Lower chance than first and third. First year you’re a newb and likely to make mistakes. Third year you get confident and sloppy and likely to make mistakes. Most common way to die is running off the road when going too fast into a corner. Followed by being too aggressive in intersections and failing to avoid other people making mistakes or not seeing you. If a car forces right of way and you could’ve stopped but didn’t, it’s your fault. Even tho legally it’s their fault but you’re the one with less crumple zones so you gotta drive defensively.
  - sowbug 8y ago
    Likely the same effect as airplane pilots, where the 100th through 250th flight hours of your career are the most dangerous. Stage 1: unskilled, unaware => die Stage 2: unskilled, aware => not die Stage 3: unskilled, confident => die Stage 4: skilled => live Difference is that certificated flight instructors won't let you solo until you're well into Stage 2. But any noob squid with a credit card can ride off a lot with a liter-class bike, no questions asked.

balladeer 8y ago

Simply put - you are exposed. Anything (accident) happens you fall and hit something - ground or otherwise, or are run over at times, again because you are exposed. You lost balance? Same. You just got on sand at even half the normal speed? You might still fall and hit. Wet surface, mud, speak breaks, same same. You hit another bike? Same (might be for both). You hit car? Same for you, but not for the car driver. When the bike falls you are the one who takes the hit. Most of this doesn't happen in a car. Just my observations as a biker. Yes, riding at sane speeds reduces these risks a lot.

breatheoften 8y ago

I also remember being told statistics when I did the MSF training course many years ago that a very high percentage of single vehicle motorcycle fatalities involved substance use. It was really really high - 80+% or something. I rode motorcycle for 8 years as my only mode of transportation and can clearly remember how little alcohol or marijuana was needed to notice a significant performance degradation (much more noticeable effects from small amount of substance use than when driving a car).

Klathmon 8y ago
Yeah, from what I read when I first started riding, there are a few really easy things that can significantly reduce your risk: * Wear a goddamn helmet * Don't drink and ride * Don't speed * Get a bike with ABS