17 ms·

As a self-taught programmer who doesn't have a CS degree, my experience has been that this is not a significant hurdle to any workplace that I would seriously c

by johnmaguire2013 8y ago

As a self-taught programmer who doesn't have a CS degree, my experience has been that this is not a significant hurdle to any workplace that I would seriously consider applying.

el_benhameen 8y ago
Where do you find jobs to apply to? I am also a self-taught programmer without a CS degree, and it seems that a surprisingly large portion of companies use obtuse algo/whiteboarding interview questions. My objection is less that I don’t know or can’t learn them and more that it seems like a waste of time to prep for stuff that isn’t useful.
- yc12340 8y ago
  Those companies aren't hiring, they are just sifting market for rock starts. I have seen this in numerous places already — when a company has enough product leaders, but still enough money/time to hire a couple more, they begin whiteboarding people. Several years later those product owners will leave, and suddenly the interviews are reduced to "you worked with <insert technology name>? Know what <insert technical term> is? Accepte^W erm, I mean we will contact you tomorrow!" Several weeks after passing the interview you start asking colleagues about their own interviews. And everyone has wastly different experience. Some were hired after being harrassed for hours. Others got job thanks to friendly tip...
  - tekknik 8y ago
    this is false, you can’t blanket companies like this. the job i’m currently at required me to find all palindromes in a set of strings. the company makes media management software.
diminoten 8y ago
As a self-taught programmer who doesn't have a CS degree, my experience is substantially different. There are many places where I would seriously consider applying (FAANG) that this would be a significant hurdle. I've taken to competitive programming as a way to prepare myself, but I'm a long way away from being at a level where I'm comfortable applying to the companies I'd like to work for. I think a lot of people like you and I pretend to make the choice of, "I'd never work there" when the reality is, "They'd never hire me", and it does everyone a disservice to continue to perpetuate that lie. It's not a problem or a negative thing that FAANG would never hire me/you, it's just the truth. FAANG would never consider hiring you or me as-is, but if we worked really hard for awhile, they would. This has nothing to do with our ability to do the job they'd hire us for, but that's the game, they want their candidates to be good at the game, and I'm at least willing to play. You aren't willing to play, and that's fine, but don't pretend like you're being the discerning one here.
- sfuller 8y ago
  As a person without the degree that works at one of these companies, I can honestly say that it's incredibly difficult to get in. What I haven't seen anyone talk about is how it haunts you constantly. Not necessarily coming from other people, but knowing that if someone wanted to call you incompetent, it'd be on you to prove otherwise since you dont have the degree to back up your knowledge. I wish I could go back and get a CS degree just to tame the thought that it could all fall apart so easily.
  - deleted 8y ago
    [deleted]
  - samlord 8y ago
    Exactly, you took the words right out of my mouth. I'm 6 years in as a web dev and still feel the downsides of not having that paper. There is that constant, need to prove feeling that lingers in my mind. I'd love to work for a big company but I am stuck in my country. Visa approval requires that paper to prove you're skilled. Stuck with opportunities that pay really less, compared to Europe/USA. Don't know about you but, I recently decided to bite the bullet and join a CS degree on the side. Going to be tough 3 years, but it'll be worth having that paper once in for all.
    - int_19h 8y ago
      > Visa approval requires that paper to prove you're skilled. There are ways to go around that - in some countries, US among them, you can count some years of specialized work experience in the field in lieu of formal education ("degree equivalence" - I believe). I got a work visa in Canada on that basis, and later L1, H1B, and finally a green card in US, without any degree. With respect to US specifically, google for "USCIS three-for-one" for more on this.
      - samlord 8y ago
        Yea, but was it a relatively easy process? I've heard of USCIS too, but the process looks complicated.

As a self-taught programmer who doesn't have a CS degree, my experience has been that this is not a significant hurdle to any workplace that I would seriously consider applying.

el_benhameen 8y ago

Where do you find jobs to apply to? I am also a self-taught programmer without a CS degree, and it seems that a surprisingly large portion of companies use obtuse algo/whiteboarding interview questions. My objection is less that I don’t know or can’t learn them and more that it seems like a waste of time to prep for stuff that isn’t useful.

yc12340 8y ago
Those companies aren't hiring, they are just sifting market for rock starts. I have seen this in numerous places already — when a company has enough product leaders, but still enough money/time to hire a couple more, they begin whiteboarding people. Several years later those product owners will leave, and suddenly the interviews are reduced to "you worked with <insert technology name>? Know what <insert technical term> is? Accepte^W erm, I mean we will contact you tomorrow!" Several weeks after passing the interview you start asking colleagues about their own interviews. And everyone has wastly different experience. Some were hired after being harrassed for hours. Others got job thanks to friendly tip...
- tekknik 8y ago
  this is false, you can’t blanket companies like this. the job i’m currently at required me to find all palindromes in a set of strings. the company makes media management software.

diminoten 8y ago

As a self-taught programmer who doesn't have a CS degree, my experience is substantially different. There are many places where I would seriously consider applying (FAANG) that this would be a significant hurdle. I've taken to competitive programming as a way to prepare myself, but I'm a long way away from being at a level where I'm comfortable applying to the companies I'd like to work for. I think a lot of people like you and I pretend to make the choice of, "I'd never work there" when the reality is, "They'd never hire me", and it does everyone a disservice to continue to perpetuate that lie. It's not a problem or a negative thing that FAANG would never hire me/you, it's just the truth. FAANG would never consider hiring you or me as-is, but if we worked really hard for awhile, they would. This has nothing to do with our ability to do the job they'd hire us for, but that's the game, they want their candidates to be good at the game, and I'm at least willing to play. You aren't willing to play, and that's fine, but don't pretend like you're being the discerning one here.

sfuller 8y ago
As a person without the degree that works at one of these companies, I can honestly say that it's incredibly difficult to get in. What I haven't seen anyone talk about is how it haunts you constantly. Not necessarily coming from other people, but knowing that if someone wanted to call you incompetent, it'd be on you to prove otherwise since you dont have the degree to back up your knowledge. I wish I could go back and get a CS degree just to tame the thought that it could all fall apart so easily.
- deleted 8y ago
  [deleted]
- samlord 8y ago
  Exactly, you took the words right out of my mouth. I'm 6 years in as a web dev and still feel the downsides of not having that paper. There is that constant, need to prove feeling that lingers in my mind. I'd love to work for a big company but I am stuck in my country. Visa approval requires that paper to prove you're skilled. Stuck with opportunities that pay really less, compared to Europe/USA. Don't know about you but, I recently decided to bite the bullet and join a CS degree on the side. Going to be tough 3 years, but it'll be worth having that paper once in for all.
  - int_19h 8y ago
    > Visa approval requires that paper to prove you're skilled. There are ways to go around that - in some countries, US among them, you can count some years of specialized work experience in the field in lieu of formal education ("degree equivalence" - I believe). I got a work visa in Canada on that basis, and later L1, H1B, and finally a green card in US, without any degree. With respect to US specifically, google for "USCIS three-for-one" for more on this.
    - samlord 8y ago
      Yea, but was it a relatively easy process? I've heard of USCIS too, but the process looks complicated.