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> "they" said they are hardly "major"? Why would I care what "they" say if I have first hand knowledge about whether it's major or not? > For example, the gov

> "they" said they are hardly "major"? Why would I care what "they" say if I have first hand knowledge about whether it's major or not? > For example, the government is sending massive amount of people (village by village) to reeducation camps in Xinjiang province. Do you think the official news media will report any of this? The government actually publicly addressed that a while ago and I've seen it in news. It's very different from what the western media claims of course, and it's a complicated issue like the fake news. Also, it's mostly western media that cares the most about these topics, not the "individual self media".

PavlovsCat 8y ago
> Why would I care what "they" say if I have first hand knowledge about whether it's major or not? "Major" and "major in contrast" are two very different things. Why would I care about your assessment of a situation when I see how you play fast and loose here? > The government actually publicly addressed that a while ago and I've seen it in news. It's very different from what the western media claims of course, and it's a complicated issue like the fake news. It's too complicated to explain, so I take your word for it? > Also, it's mostly western media that cares the most about these topics, not the "individual self media". Any intelligent human with a backbone cares about people murdered en masse, over decades, or put into concentration camps that grow like mushroom in mere months, including people you cannot tie the shoelaces of. You don't measure the importance of this by how many people care about it (how convenient for you to claim by the way, since anyone who disagrees, might have to fear for their life), you find out the importance of a person by their stance on this, among other things. edit: I didn't mean to have a go at you. I'm kinda sorry for that, but I also have to weigh between not offending you, and not spitting on the people who get murdered, and which you downplay. Can't make everyone happy, and that's not really my fault either. I'll just note that so far you aren't really speaking for yourself, but refer to Chinese media, without even stating their explanation, and bring up "Western media". Our media don't speak for us just like your media can't speak for you. Yes, Western media also sweeps Western atrocities under the rug (though not uniformly), and that's very deplorable. That just means we're not really better, maybe even worse when it comes to wars of aggression -- but that makes none of it okay, it's not a contest.
- echevil 8y ago
  Well, thank you for the detailed explanations, and I think I owe you some more explanation. I'm not sure how different are "Major" and "major in contrast". Sorry about my English, it's not my first language. It is my opinion that fake news and such are an important problem and it's prevailing in Chinese social media. I do believe freedom in press is great but freedom with no regulation would be very dangerous. I don't remember how many times I need to tell my parents "don't listen to that, that's completely fake" "seaweeds on the market are not made of plastic bags", "it's fine to eat persimmon",... > It's too complicated to explain, so I take your word for it? It's just something I don't feel like arguing, because why would you trust me instead of those news reports you've been reading all the time. > Any intelligent human with a backbone cares about people murdered en masse, over decades... I'd feel terrible about those people, of course, but ONLY IF THOSE CLAIMS ARE TRUE. I don't really buy their claims because the reporters themselves are very unlikely to have investigated the situations in person, and the stories are most likely coming from sources that either are anti-Chinese government themselves or seeking personal gains (like getting refugee visa in US). And the stories don't really make sense. The official claim from Chinese government is: those are re-education centers trying to train muslim extremists so that they have enough skills to get a job and live a normal life instead of becoming terrorists. While I won't simply just believe the Chinese government's claim as it is, but it is much more plausible and much more likely to be truth adjacent. If you know more about China, you'll know there are actually quite many muslims living in peace in China, and you can easily find muslim restaurants in most cities. Why would Chinese government even care about put muslims in Xinjiang into concentration camps? What would they gain from that? The background is that there had been more terrorist activities in the past few years in that region, and it's becoming more unsafe, especially for Han ethnic group to live there. That's what the government is most worried about. Re-educations are just a way of making extremists less extreme. > I'll just note that so far you aren't really speaking for yourself, but refer to Chinese media, without even stating their explanation, and bring up "Western media" I do bring up "Western media" a lot because I am so frustrated with them bull-shitting about China and that they successfully influenced people's opinions with tons of single sided stories and disinformation. I had friends asking me about whether I have need to worry about social credit score, and what can I say? "It's at most a proposal yet and it's far from being established" "How can there be so many creepy rules before it's established?" "You can't just believe whatever NPR says because you think it's neutral. Their sources could lie"

PavlovsCat 8y ago

> Why would I care what "they" say if I have first hand knowledge about whether it's major or not? "Major" and "major in contrast" are two very different things. Why would I care about your assessment of a situation when I see how you play fast and loose here? > The government actually publicly addressed that a while ago and I've seen it in news. It's very different from what the western media claims of course, and it's a complicated issue like the fake news. It's too complicated to explain, so I take your word for it? > Also, it's mostly western media that cares the most about these topics, not the "individual self media". Any intelligent human with a backbone cares about people murdered en masse, over decades, or put into concentration camps that grow like mushroom in mere months, including people you cannot tie the shoelaces of. You don't measure the importance of this by how many people care about it (how convenient for you to claim by the way, since anyone who disagrees, might have to fear for their life), you find out the importance of a person by their stance on this, among other things. edit: I didn't mean to have a go at you. I'm kinda sorry for that, but I also have to weigh between not offending you, and not spitting on the people who get murdered, and which you downplay. Can't make everyone happy, and that's not really my fault either. I'll just note that so far you aren't really speaking for yourself, but refer to Chinese media, without even stating their explanation, and bring up "Western media". Our media don't speak for us just like your media can't speak for you. Yes, Western media also sweeps Western atrocities under the rug (though not uniformly), and that's very deplorable. That just means we're not really better, maybe even worse when it comes to wars of aggression -- but that makes none of it okay, it's not a contest.

echevil 8y ago
Well, thank you for the detailed explanations, and I think I owe you some more explanation. I'm not sure how different are "Major" and "major in contrast". Sorry about my English, it's not my first language. It is my opinion that fake news and such are an important problem and it's prevailing in Chinese social media. I do believe freedom in press is great but freedom with no regulation would be very dangerous. I don't remember how many times I need to tell my parents "don't listen to that, that's completely fake" "seaweeds on the market are not made of plastic bags", "it's fine to eat persimmon",... > It's too complicated to explain, so I take your word for it? It's just something I don't feel like arguing, because why would you trust me instead of those news reports you've been reading all the time. > Any intelligent human with a backbone cares about people murdered en masse, over decades... I'd feel terrible about those people, of course, but ONLY IF THOSE CLAIMS ARE TRUE. I don't really buy their claims because the reporters themselves are very unlikely to have investigated the situations in person, and the stories are most likely coming from sources that either are anti-Chinese government themselves or seeking personal gains (like getting refugee visa in US). And the stories don't really make sense. The official claim from Chinese government is: those are re-education centers trying to train muslim extremists so that they have enough skills to get a job and live a normal life instead of becoming terrorists. While I won't simply just believe the Chinese government's claim as it is, but it is much more plausible and much more likely to be truth adjacent. If you know more about China, you'll know there are actually quite many muslims living in peace in China, and you can easily find muslim restaurants in most cities. Why would Chinese government even care about put muslims in Xinjiang into concentration camps? What would they gain from that? The background is that there had been more terrorist activities in the past few years in that region, and it's becoming more unsafe, especially for Han ethnic group to live there. That's what the government is most worried about. Re-educations are just a way of making extremists less extreme. > I'll just note that so far you aren't really speaking for yourself, but refer to Chinese media, without even stating their explanation, and bring up "Western media" I do bring up "Western media" a lot because I am so frustrated with them bull-shitting about China and that they successfully influenced people's opinions with tons of single sided stories and disinformation. I had friends asking me about whether I have need to worry about social credit score, and what can I say? "It's at most a proposal yet and it's far from being established" "How can there be so many creepy rules before it's established?" "You can't just believe whatever NPR says because you think it's neutral. Their sources could lie"