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It's cool that accounts that want to sow discord and divide our society are being taken down. But I would also like to see the same standard applied to the medi

by tarnz 8y ago

It's cool that accounts that want to sow discord and divide our society are being taken down. But I would also like to see the same standard applied to the media. Dividing society and causing pain is how they made their millions.

ar0 8y ago
These accounts are not being taken down because „they want to sow discord“, though, and rightly so: what „sows discord“ is highly subjective and not a good criteria to take anything down. They are being taken down because they are (allegedly) faking who is behind those accounts (i.e. they are fraudsters with political instead of financial motives).
- deleted 8y ago
  [deleted]
- tarns 8y ago
  If those accounts were "authentic" they would also have political motives behind. The only reason they are taken down is that they are funded by an adversary power, but the American media is controlled by adversaries of the American public too.
dragonsky67 8y ago
How do you define sowing discord or dividing society? If you look at most of the social advances hard won over the last twenty years, they have always caused discord and challanged society. In America, the right to bear arms has caused massive discord, same with same sex marrage, leagal marijuana, black lives matter... not to mention discussions about political leaders. In other countries similar discord is sown regarding Brexit in the UK, Aslyim seekers in Australia, Climate change. Each of these debates have been accompanied on both sides by a range of discussions with debatable facts. At what point does the carrier of the message become the legitimate editior or even worse censor of that information. Who decides what is a fact? The winner? The CEO? As far as I'm aware there is only one disicipline that is considered to have proof of facts, the rest is either best guess that meets the evidence or simply opnion. Allowing the messenger to chose what is and is not a fact removes the massive benefit provided by the internet, the ability for everybody to have a voice. I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it. We have just celebrated the anaversery of the end of the First World War, lets not have this date be celebrated in the future as being the start of the loss of freedoms that millions died for.
- tarns 8y ago
  >In America, the right to bear arms has caused massive discord, same with same sex marrage, leagal marijuana, black lives matter... not to mention discussions about political leaders. In other countries similar discord is sown regarding Brexit in the UK, Aslyim seekers in Australia, Climate change. Each of these debates have been accompanied on both sides by a range of discussions with debatable facts. Maximised and polarised to the maximum by the media. That is the real common component here. Most people would be apathetic to those issues, if it wasn't for the media bombarding them and pissing them off.
  - bilbo0s 8y ago
    >Most people would be apathetic to those issues, if it wasn't for the media... Just wanted to point out though that these issues were chosen precisely BECAUSE most people are NOT apathetic to them. That's what makes them good wedge issues. For instance, whether the media would cover them or not, people would still want marijuana. (And another set of people would still want marijuana banned.) People care about the issue regardless of whether or not the media covers it. That's why these are good issues to use if your intent is to destabilize a society. They are latent, un-"dealt with" issues. I'd imagine those are the sort of issues you'd look for when trying to increase discord in target nations.
  - matt4077 8y ago
    > Most people would be apathetic to those issues Is this hypothetical supposed to be something positive? Because I actually agree apathy to these issues, and most others, would be the logical result of not having the media report on them. But climate change happens in the real world, and the phenomenon doesn't care about the press it gets. It would still happen without you being informed. But, quite obviously, not knowing about problems does not seem to be a promising strategy for democratic societies. (replace climate change with any problem you hold dear and consider true, in case you're one of those people)
- prolikewh0a 8y ago
  Sowing discord is how change happens. Why are we blaming this ALL on Russia to seemingly keep a status quo intact? The whole Russian thing seems like a propaganda campaign by the FBI to keep people hooked on the status quo, that anything outside of the norm is obviously Vladimir Putin's doings. Martin Luther King Jr sowed discord and divided society in beneficial and positive ways. Take a look at the Poor People's Campaign. How could civil rights have taken place if they didn't change people's minds? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/COINTELPRO https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/COINTELPRO

by tarnz 8y ago

ar0 8y ago

These accounts are not being taken down because „they want to sow discord“, though, and rightly so: what „sows discord“ is highly subjective and not a good criteria to take anything down. They are being taken down because they are (allegedly) faking who is behind those accounts (i.e. they are fraudsters with political instead of financial motives).

deleted 8y ago
[deleted]
tarns 8y ago
If those accounts were "authentic" they would also have political motives behind. The only reason they are taken down is that they are funded by an adversary power, but the American media is controlled by adversaries of the American public too.

dragonsky67 8y ago

How do you define sowing discord or dividing society? If you look at most of the social advances hard won over the last twenty years, they have always caused discord and challanged society. In America, the right to bear arms has caused massive discord, same with same sex marrage, leagal marijuana, black lives matter... not to mention discussions about political leaders. In other countries similar discord is sown regarding Brexit in the UK, Aslyim seekers in Australia, Climate change. Each of these debates have been accompanied on both sides by a range of discussions with debatable facts. At what point does the carrier of the message become the legitimate editior or even worse censor of that information. Who decides what is a fact? The winner? The CEO? As far as I'm aware there is only one disicipline that is considered to have proof of facts, the rest is either best guess that meets the evidence or simply opnion. Allowing the messenger to chose what is and is not a fact removes the massive benefit provided by the internet, the ability for everybody to have a voice. I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it. We have just celebrated the anaversery of the end of the First World War, lets not have this date be celebrated in the future as being the start of the loss of freedoms that millions died for.

tarns 8y ago
>In America, the right to bear arms has caused massive discord, same with same sex marrage, leagal marijuana, black lives matter... not to mention discussions about political leaders. In other countries similar discord is sown regarding Brexit in the UK, Aslyim seekers in Australia, Climate change. Each of these debates have been accompanied on both sides by a range of discussions with debatable facts. Maximised and polarised to the maximum by the media. That is the real common component here. Most people would be apathetic to those issues, if it wasn't for the media bombarding them and pissing them off.
- bilbo0s 8y ago
  >Most people would be apathetic to those issues, if it wasn't for the media... Just wanted to point out though that these issues were chosen precisely BECAUSE most people are NOT apathetic to them. That's what makes them good wedge issues. For instance, whether the media would cover them or not, people would still want marijuana. (And another set of people would still want marijuana banned.) People care about the issue regardless of whether or not the media covers it. That's why these are good issues to use if your intent is to destabilize a society. They are latent, un-"dealt with" issues. I'd imagine those are the sort of issues you'd look for when trying to increase discord in target nations.
- matt4077 8y ago
  > Most people would be apathetic to those issues Is this hypothetical supposed to be something positive? Because I actually agree apathy to these issues, and most others, would be the logical result of not having the media report on them. But climate change happens in the real world, and the phenomenon doesn't care about the press it gets. It would still happen without you being informed. But, quite obviously, not knowing about problems does not seem to be a promising strategy for democratic societies. (replace climate change with any problem you hold dear and consider true, in case you're one of those people)
prolikewh0a 8y ago
Sowing discord is how change happens. Why are we blaming this ALL on Russia to seemingly keep a status quo intact? The whole Russian thing seems like a propaganda campaign by the FBI to keep people hooked on the status quo, that anything outside of the norm is obviously Vladimir Putin's doings. Martin Luther King Jr sowed discord and divided society in beneficial and positive ways. Take a look at the Poor People's Campaign. How could civil rights have taken place if they didn't change people's minds? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/COINTELPRO https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/COINTELPRO