4 ms·

he didn't talk only about taxes HE paid. There were 10+ generations that paid taxes to the United States of America for the last 200+ years to become what it is

by borism 16y ago

he didn't talk only about taxes HE paid. There were 10+ generations that paid taxes to the United States of America for the last 200+ years to become what it is now. even if I agreed with your assumption (which I don't), I would certainly not be able to agree that US taxpayers subsidized "less productive" for past 200+ years and US still became what it is now.

yummyfajitas 16y ago
even if I agreed with your assumption (which I don't) The facts are easy to check: http://www.usgovernmentspending.com/year2008_US.html http://www.usgovernmentspending.com/year2008_US.html Of the top 5 biggest expenditures in the US as of 2008 (the last year for which full data is available), only the #4 expenditure (the military) was a public good. The #1,2,3 and 5 items together account for 58% of government spending in the US. The basics mentioned by the original poster are actually pretty cheap. Water and sewers are about 2% of government spending. Police, fire, prison and courts were only 6%. Roads are another 5%. The military (the biggest public good expense) is only 14%.
- jokermatt999 16y ago
  I'd argue that education is a public good. Even if you don't have kids, it seems like it would be in your interest to ensure that the people who will be running things in the future are informed and competent.
  - enki 16y ago
    please look up the terms 'public good' and 'private good'
  - yummyfajitas 16y ago
    By this logic, any investment is a public good. Of course, education isn't a public good. It's rivalrous (you and I can't simultaneously enjoy the same seat in a classroom) and excludible (if you don't pay, they don't let you in). That makes it a private good.
    - jokermatt999 16y ago
      You're correct on "not a public good", sorry. Complete economics brainfart; I was thinking public good = for the common good. I'm not sure who downvoted you or why, but I modded you back to +1. I do still think that education should be a function of the government, however. Edit to expand on my position: I had confused the terms public good and common good. I believe that a solid, (to some extent, but not as far as we are now) standardized education system is in the best interest of our nation. I don't think this could be provided privately.
Symmetry 16y ago
You seem to be missing a word on that last sentence, so my apologies if I'm misreading you. John Carmack talked about what he saw as the problem getting worse, and I think he would say that most of what we spent money on 200 years ago was money well spent. In fact, I would be very surprised if there were many things that the government did 200 years ago which he would be against the government continuing to do.
- borism 16y ago
  I would be very surprised if people 200, 150, 100, 50 years ago didn't think that things are getting worse and worse with government spending. And yet somehow America grew to become the World Power, long-lasting businesses were created, government-funded research led to many advances etc. And very often all that happened while tax rates were much MUCH higher and government was very much involved. So I call out BS.

by borism 16y ago

yummyfajitas 16y ago

even if I agreed with your assumption (which I don't) The facts are easy to check: http://www.usgovernmentspending.com/year2008_US.html http://www.usgovernmentspending.com/year2008_US.html Of the top 5 biggest expenditures in the US as of 2008 (the last year for which full data is available), only the #4 expenditure (the military) was a public good. The #1,2,3 and 5 items together account for 58% of government spending in the US. The basics mentioned by the original poster are actually pretty cheap. Water and sewers are about 2% of government spending. Police, fire, prison and courts were only 6%. Roads are another 5%. The military (the biggest public good expense) is only 14%.

jokermatt999 16y ago
I'd argue that education is a public good. Even if you don't have kids, it seems like it would be in your interest to ensure that the people who will be running things in the future are informed and competent.
- enki 16y ago
  please look up the terms 'public good' and 'private good'
- yummyfajitas 16y ago
  By this logic, any investment is a public good. Of course, education isn't a public good. It's rivalrous (you and I can't simultaneously enjoy the same seat in a classroom) and excludible (if you don't pay, they don't let you in). That makes it a private good.
  - jokermatt999 16y ago
    You're correct on "not a public good", sorry. Complete economics brainfart; I was thinking public good = for the common good. I'm not sure who downvoted you or why, but I modded you back to +1. I do still think that education should be a function of the government, however. Edit to expand on my position: I had confused the terms public good and common good. I believe that a solid, (to some extent, but not as far as we are now) standardized education system is in the best interest of our nation. I don't think this could be provided privately.

Symmetry 16y ago

You seem to be missing a word on that last sentence, so my apologies if I'm misreading you. John Carmack talked about what he saw as the problem getting worse, and I think he would say that most of what we spent money on 200 years ago was money well spent. In fact, I would be very surprised if there were many things that the government did 200 years ago which he would be against the government continuing to do.

borism 16y ago
I would be very surprised if people 200, 150, 100, 50 years ago didn't think that things are getting worse and worse with government spending. And yet somehow America grew to become the World Power, long-lasting businesses were created, government-funded research led to many advances etc. And very often all that happened while tax rates were much MUCH higher and government was very much involved. So I call out BS.