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>>if the data shows it'd be bad for the town, why the town is bidding? It may be that town management is incompetent, or corrupt - but then isn't it up to the t

by moate 8y ago

>>if the data shows it'd be bad for the town, why the town is bidding? It may be that town management is incompetent, or corrupt - but then isn't it up to the town population to oust the incompetent management and elect a competent one? The thing is, it can be a terrible idea, the government can still do it, and we can then elect new officials to replace them. These things aren't mutually exclusive. The problem is, voting out the idiots that gave away all the town's tax money to Amazon doesn't mean you get the money back. The town is still FUBAR by the debt and infrastructure strain, which now limits the ability of the new government to make proper decisions which leads to calls of incompetency which leads to them being voted out etc etc etc. >>If, however, we do think it's good to allow local governments to govern, then if their decision is to bid for Amazon HQ and they think it's good for their town, why should we interfere and tell them it's not? Really? Just defer to authority? There's a wide range of options between "Let the government do whatever it wants if that's what it thinks is right" and "Never let the government do anything because it upsets someone". People protest decisions all the time. Government officials make mistakes and implement bad policy ideas all the time. Government is a living thing. The town can say "let's do this stupid thing that will ruin us" and the people can rise up, make sure that doesn't happen, and elect an official that will put a law on the books making sure that thing never happens. AND THEN, 20 years later when circumstances have completely changes and the whole picture is different, they can then remove those restrictions as for being antiquated and problematic! Democracy in action!

smsm42 8y ago
> The problem is, voting out the idiots that gave away all the town's tax money to Amazon doesn't mean you get the money back Sure, but tax laws can be changed. In fact, if the town inhabitants tell Amazon now "we do not support the deal our management has made, and will kick them out and manage things differently", Amazon probably would not consider this deal a done thing - it's much easier to change taxes than to move headquarters. > The town is still FUBAR by the debt and infrastructure strain So, the solution is to make upstream government to prevent downstream government from ever making a mistake, because if downstream government makes a mistake, it can have long-term consequences. But upstream government can't make such mistakes, presumably? The only way it works that I can see is that because you can't prove a hypothetical, you can't win an argument for doing something - because doing something can always lead to a mistake, while if you are doing nothing, you can't conclusively prove doing something would be better, since it's a hypothetical. So, the ideal situation is when any action of the local government that can potentially lead to a mistake is banned. > Really? Just defer to authority? Do you have any other choice? Somebody has to make the decision. Either it's the inhabitants of the town, as represented by the government they themselves elected, or it's the central government which of course always knows better and has everybody's best interest in mind and is never corrupt or mistaken. Who else would that be? The decision has to be made somewhere by somebody. Some people here advocate it should be centralized government because local governments can do stupid things. This makes no sense. Or, we can take poll on HN and mandate by law that everybody should do whatever it says. That would surely work wonders. > Government is a living thing. Surely, but what is being advocated here is to take the authority from local government, because it can lead to a bad outcome. As if authority of the central government can't.

by moate 8y ago

smsm42 8y ago

> The problem is, voting out the idiots that gave away all the town's tax money to Amazon doesn't mean you get the money back Sure, but tax laws can be changed. In fact, if the town inhabitants tell Amazon now "we do not support the deal our management has made, and will kick them out and manage things differently", Amazon probably would not consider this deal a done thing - it's much easier to change taxes than to move headquarters. > The town is still FUBAR by the debt and infrastructure strain So, the solution is to make upstream government to prevent downstream government from ever making a mistake, because if downstream government makes a mistake, it can have long-term consequences. But upstream government can't make such mistakes, presumably? The only way it works that I can see is that because you can't prove a hypothetical, you can't win an argument for doing something - because doing something can always lead to a mistake, while if you are doing nothing, you can't conclusively prove doing something would be better, since it's a hypothetical. So, the ideal situation is when any action of the local government that can potentially lead to a mistake is banned. > Really? Just defer to authority? Do you have any other choice? Somebody has to make the decision. Either it's the inhabitants of the town, as represented by the government they themselves elected, or it's the central government which of course always knows better and has everybody's best interest in mind and is never corrupt or mistaken. Who else would that be? The decision has to be made somewhere by somebody. Some people here advocate it should be centralized government because local governments can do stupid things. This makes no sense. Or, we can take poll on HN and mandate by law that everybody should do whatever it says. That would surely work wonders. > Government is a living thing. Surely, but what is being advocated here is to take the authority from local government, because it can lead to a bad outcome. As if authority of the central government can't.