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Given all the tools that are at a politicians disposal, it actually is rather hard to stop all the paths a city can use to participate in this kind of thing sin

Given all the tools that are at a politicians disposal, it actually is rather hard to stop all the paths a city can use to participate in this kind of thing since a lot of it is based on what they do everyday.

sonnyblarney 8y ago
I'm not sure I agree. If it's made illegal to subsidize individual corporate interests through tax incentives, direct subsidies, what else can be done? Zoning? That to me is actually a legit thing. If Amazon wants to build 5 buildings next to downtown, on land that isn't currently zoned for that - it makes perfect sense to consider that. For any company frankly. It's the cities job to accomodate various interest with zoning. So what else is at a politicians disposal? No much. Maybe guaranteed contracts ... but even then, that's not such a bad thing so long as the company is getting value. Moreover, I don't think cities are big users of any of their local companies things. Bombardier always threatens to leave Montreal as they try to get giveaways elsewhere ... it's not like Phoenix Arizona, which was going to give Bombardier a big chunk of cash to open a factory there is going be buying jets or snowmobiles. So I think that 'making it illegal' would definitely quash most of this activity. And FYI if politicos try to bend the rules, they open themselves up to lawsuits. So I think it's possible.
- protomyth 8y ago
  If it's made illegal to subsidize individual corporate interests through tax incentives, direct subsidies, what else can be done? Its really not that hard to make the incentive for all companies but write it specifically so it only fits one. Ask any HR Director writing job descriptions that they intend to hire an H1B for. We have plenty of laws that are rather easy to get around. It really would take some serious changes in how city councils are allowed to operate. And who is going to limit them? Cities are not self limiting. Maybe a petition in states like California and North Dakota, but certainly not the state government since those politicians get to sit in the box seat too.
  - sonnyblarney 8y ago
    I don't understand your argument. Municipalities have no influence over H1s. But even then, providing choice access to H1 programs is not the problem here. That might even be beneficial, moreover, that's a national program. "And who is going to limit them?" "Cities are not self limiting." ??? The law. If it's illegal for a city or state to give money to private companies that there's not much need for populist oversight, because it's against the law. You do realize most government officials generally follow the law right?
    - protomyth 8y ago
      Municipalities have no influence over H1s. But even then, providing choice access to H1 programs is not the problem here. That might even be beneficial, moreover, that's a national program. Its an example that shows how a law that is meant to limit an actor (in this case a company) that does not truly limit that actor. ??? The law. If it's illegal for a city or state to give money to private companies that there's not much need for populist oversight, because it's against the law. Is the city going to pass that law? Is the state? No. Neither will limit their own power. Maybe a citizen passed initiative would work. You do realize most government officials generally follow the law right? Someone has to pass that law.
      - sonnyblarney 8y ago
        Your argument was: "Given all the tools that are at a politicians disposal, it actually is rather hard to stop all the paths a city can use to participate in this kind of thing since a lot of it is based on what they do everyday." My agument is simply that a law could be passed, which would mostly solve the problem. Now you're saying 'well a law has to be passed'. Yes. Of course. It has to be passed. But if a law is passed, and it certainly could ... then there's little politicians could do to get around it. Your argument about 'politicians can do a lot' - of course they can if they are free to do as they please. Nobody is debating that 'politicians can give subsidies if they want'. "It's hard to make ego illegal" Again - no it's not hard at all. Just literally make it illegal to subsidize, and then it'll stop. Obviously that's no small feat.

sonnyblarney 8y ago

I'm not sure I agree. If it's made illegal to subsidize individual corporate interests through tax incentives, direct subsidies, what else can be done? Zoning? That to me is actually a legit thing. If Amazon wants to build 5 buildings next to downtown, on land that isn't currently zoned for that - it makes perfect sense to consider that. For any company frankly. It's the cities job to accomodate various interest with zoning. So what else is at a politicians disposal? No much. Maybe guaranteed contracts ... but even then, that's not such a bad thing so long as the company is getting value. Moreover, I don't think cities are big users of any of their local companies things. Bombardier always threatens to leave Montreal as they try to get giveaways elsewhere ... it's not like Phoenix Arizona, which was going to give Bombardier a big chunk of cash to open a factory there is going be buying jets or snowmobiles. So I think that 'making it illegal' would definitely quash most of this activity. And FYI if politicos try to bend the rules, they open themselves up to lawsuits. So I think it's possible.

protomyth 8y ago
If it's made illegal to subsidize individual corporate interests through tax incentives, direct subsidies, what else can be done? Its really not that hard to make the incentive for all companies but write it specifically so it only fits one. Ask any HR Director writing job descriptions that they intend to hire an H1B for. We have plenty of laws that are rather easy to get around. It really would take some serious changes in how city councils are allowed to operate. And who is going to limit them? Cities are not self limiting. Maybe a petition in states like California and North Dakota, but certainly not the state government since those politicians get to sit in the box seat too.
- sonnyblarney 8y ago
  I don't understand your argument. Municipalities have no influence over H1s. But even then, providing choice access to H1 programs is not the problem here. That might even be beneficial, moreover, that's a national program. "And who is going to limit them?" "Cities are not self limiting." ??? The law. If it's illegal for a city or state to give money to private companies that there's not much need for populist oversight, because it's against the law. You do realize most government officials generally follow the law right?
  - protomyth 8y ago
    Municipalities have no influence over H1s. But even then, providing choice access to H1 programs is not the problem here. That might even be beneficial, moreover, that's a national program. Its an example that shows how a law that is meant to limit an actor (in this case a company) that does not truly limit that actor. ??? The law. If it's illegal for a city or state to give money to private companies that there's not much need for populist oversight, because it's against the law. Is the city going to pass that law? Is the state? No. Neither will limit their own power. Maybe a citizen passed initiative would work. You do realize most government officials generally follow the law right? Someone has to pass that law.
    - sonnyblarney 8y ago
      Your argument was: "Given all the tools that are at a politicians disposal, it actually is rather hard to stop all the paths a city can use to participate in this kind of thing since a lot of it is based on what they do everyday." My agument is simply that a law could be passed, which would mostly solve the problem. Now you're saying 'well a law has to be passed'. Yes. Of course. It has to be passed. But if a law is passed, and it certainly could ... then there's little politicians could do to get around it. Your argument about 'politicians can do a lot' - of course they can if they are free to do as they please. Nobody is debating that 'politicians can give subsidies if they want'. "It's hard to make ego illegal" Again - no it's not hard at all. Just literally make it illegal to subsidize, and then it'll stop. Obviously that's no small feat.