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Newly elected Democrats in the NY state legislature might block the NYC Amazon subsidies and put the funds into student debt relief instead: https://capitalandm

Newly elected Democrats in the NY state legislature might block the NYC Amazon subsidies and put the funds into student debt relief instead: https://capitalandmain.com/will-new-york-fund-amazon-subsidies-or-student-debt-relief-1113 https://capitalandmain.com/will-new-york-fund-amazon-subsidi...

FiveSquared 8y ago
Good. Studen loasns are BS and it will help stop more traffic
- devmunchies 8y ago
  not good. govt paying off student loans just makes them a sure bet and validates the behavior. Govt has the power to allow you to default, but why don't they?
  - blindwatchmaker 8y ago
    Excessive rents and debts are a drain on consumer spending and ultimately harm the economy. The root cause isn't greedy students wanting an education (weird way to think about it), but tuition costs ballooning out of control. It's also increasingly harder and harder to default on student debt, with states forcing extreme measures such as wage garnishing and taking away people's driving licenses: https://www.nytimes.com/2017/11/18/business/student-loans-licenses.html https://www.nytimes.com/2017/11/18/business/student-loans-li... Fully expect to see debtor's prisons back in vogue this century.
    - Carlton87 8y ago
      The root cause are greedy loan providers that know payment back is a sure bet. My 50,000 foot view of the problem is that it is far to easy to obtain a huge sum of money to go to school for a career with no job prospects. My solution would be to factor in degree and ability to repay, making loans much harder to get. Also, I would revoke many degree paths from the ability to get approved federal loans.
      - mojomark 8y ago
        This falls right in line with my thinking. I've listened to so many NPR stories about students suddenly realizing right at graduation that, "oh, holy shit, I have to pay $900/month loan payment!" Just listen to this girl: https://www.npr.org/sections/ed/2014/05/02/308950755/tough-lessons-on-debt-for-college-students https://www.npr.org/sections/ed/2014/05/02/308950755/tough-l... [head slap] I could've had a V-8. Time to take some responsibility for your decisions.
  - discodave 8y ago
    Student debt is harder to discharge than other debts. You cant even discharge it through bankruptcy. One reason this was done was to reduce interest rates.
    - urda 8y ago
      > You cant even discharge it through bankruptcy. And why do you think that is? Once you get an "education", you can't exactly have another company repossess that from you. Not being able to remove your student debt by going through bankruptcy is a positive thing.
      - asr 8y ago
        I've never seen anyone cite convincing evidence that there was a real problem with students declaring bankruptcy to get out of their loans.[0] On the other hand, having our bankruptcy system not apply to a meaningful portion of U.S. lending does create some incentive problems, like the fact that lenders have no incentive to make sure you'll be able to handle repayment, so you can take out huge student loans and find out at the end you have earned a worthless degree and that it will be massively difficult or nearly impossible for you to repay the loan.[1] [0] For example, https://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/CHRG-111hhrg52412/html/CHRG-111hhrg52412.htm https://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/CHRG-111hhrg52412/html/CHRG-11...: Currently, a debtor may discharge student loans in bankruptcy only upon establishing that repaying such loans would impose an undue hardship, but this has not always been the case. Prior to 1977, student loans were automatically discharged in bankruptcy. Perceived abuse of the bankruptcy system, as opposed to any real abuse, drove Congress to change this state of affairs. A 1976 GAO report had found that less than 1 percent of all federally insured and guaranteed educational loans were discharged in bankruptcy. In other words, no abuse. [1] For example http://law.emory.edu/ebdj/content/volume-32/issue-1/comments/non-dischargeability-private-student-loans-looming-crisis.html http://law.emory.edu/ebdj/content/volume-32/issue-1/comments...
        discodave 8y ago
        I should be clear that I wasn't trying to argue that the laws around student loan debt are just, or fair. I'm just saying that one of the alleged justifications for the current state of affairs is that the difficulty of discharging student debt leads to lower interest rates.
  - FiveSquared 8y ago
    Money.
blindwatchmaker 8y ago
The current situation we have is insane. It's like the height of the gilded age with no trust busting in sight, the largest corporations in the land buy out politicians and are openly taking public money.
- enraged_camel 8y ago
  It's worth noting that not all politicians fall for this crap. Austin's Mayor, for all his flaws, refused to give any incentives to Amazon.
  - bilbo0s 8y ago
    A lot of mayors did that. Truth be told, even New York City's mayor did that. Problem is that it doesn't make a difference. Lots of other mayors will give the incentives. And, as in the case of NYC, sometimes the governors will come in and override the decision not to give subsidies anyway. (Although in the case of NYC it likely wouldn't have really mattered. I suspect they would have won the HQ2 subsidies or no subsidies.)
    - AnimalMuppet 8y ago
      Lots of mayors will give the incentives? Fine. Let them. If you think it's a bad idea - or even a bad idea for your city - then don't give them. If someone else will make the mistake, let them make the mistake (and reap the consequences).
JumpCrisscross 8y ago
> Newly elected Democrats in the NY state legislature might block the NYC Amazon subsidies and put the funds into student debt relief instead I doubt this is a real risk. The Governor is strongly behind this proposal, and has a lot of goodies to trade with the Senate. More likely: Amazon's move prompts new spending on infrastructure and community development around LIC and in random upstate districts whose votes are needed.

FiveSquared 8y ago

Good. Studen loasns are BS and it will help stop more traffic

devmunchies 8y ago
not good. govt paying off student loans just makes them a sure bet and validates the behavior. Govt has the power to allow you to default, but why don't they?
- blindwatchmaker 8y ago
  Excessive rents and debts are a drain on consumer spending and ultimately harm the economy. The root cause isn't greedy students wanting an education (weird way to think about it), but tuition costs ballooning out of control. It's also increasingly harder and harder to default on student debt, with states forcing extreme measures such as wage garnishing and taking away people's driving licenses: https://www.nytimes.com/2017/11/18/business/student-loans-licenses.html https://www.nytimes.com/2017/11/18/business/student-loans-li... Fully expect to see debtor's prisons back in vogue this century.
  - Carlton87 8y ago
    The root cause are greedy loan providers that know payment back is a sure bet. My 50,000 foot view of the problem is that it is far to easy to obtain a huge sum of money to go to school for a career with no job prospects. My solution would be to factor in degree and ability to repay, making loans much harder to get. Also, I would revoke many degree paths from the ability to get approved federal loans.
    - mojomark 8y ago
      This falls right in line with my thinking. I've listened to so many NPR stories about students suddenly realizing right at graduation that, "oh, holy shit, I have to pay $900/month loan payment!" Just listen to this girl: https://www.npr.org/sections/ed/2014/05/02/308950755/tough-lessons-on-debt-for-college-students https://www.npr.org/sections/ed/2014/05/02/308950755/tough-l... [head slap] I could've had a V-8. Time to take some responsibility for your decisions.
- discodave 8y ago
  Student debt is harder to discharge than other debts. You cant even discharge it through bankruptcy. One reason this was done was to reduce interest rates.
  - urda 8y ago
    > You cant even discharge it through bankruptcy. And why do you think that is? Once you get an "education", you can't exactly have another company repossess that from you. Not being able to remove your student debt by going through bankruptcy is a positive thing.
    - asr 8y ago
      I've never seen anyone cite convincing evidence that there was a real problem with students declaring bankruptcy to get out of their loans.[0] On the other hand, having our bankruptcy system not apply to a meaningful portion of U.S. lending does create some incentive problems, like the fact that lenders have no incentive to make sure you'll be able to handle repayment, so you can take out huge student loans and find out at the end you have earned a worthless degree and that it will be massively difficult or nearly impossible for you to repay the loan.[1] [0] For example, https://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/CHRG-111hhrg52412/html/CHRG-111hhrg52412.htm https://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/CHRG-111hhrg52412/html/CHRG-11...: Currently, a debtor may discharge student loans in bankruptcy only upon establishing that repaying such loans would impose an undue hardship, but this has not always been the case. Prior to 1977, student loans were automatically discharged in bankruptcy. Perceived abuse of the bankruptcy system, as opposed to any real abuse, drove Congress to change this state of affairs. A 1976 GAO report had found that less than 1 percent of all federally insured and guaranteed educational loans were discharged in bankruptcy. In other words, no abuse. [1] For example http://law.emory.edu/ebdj/content/volume-32/issue-1/comments/non-dischargeability-private-student-loans-looming-crisis.html http://law.emory.edu/ebdj/content/volume-32/issue-1/comments...
      - discodave 8y ago
        I should be clear that I wasn't trying to argue that the laws around student loan debt are just, or fair. I'm just saying that one of the alleged justifications for the current state of affairs is that the difficulty of discharging student debt leads to lower interest rates.
- FiveSquared 8y ago
  Money.

blindwatchmaker 8y ago

The current situation we have is insane. It's like the height of the gilded age with no trust busting in sight, the largest corporations in the land buy out politicians and are openly taking public money.

enraged_camel 8y ago
It's worth noting that not all politicians fall for this crap. Austin's Mayor, for all his flaws, refused to give any incentives to Amazon.
- bilbo0s 8y ago
  A lot of mayors did that. Truth be told, even New York City's mayor did that. Problem is that it doesn't make a difference. Lots of other mayors will give the incentives. And, as in the case of NYC, sometimes the governors will come in and override the decision not to give subsidies anyway. (Although in the case of NYC it likely wouldn't have really mattered. I suspect they would have won the HQ2 subsidies or no subsidies.)
  - AnimalMuppet 8y ago
    Lots of mayors will give the incentives? Fine. Let them. If you think it's a bad idea - or even a bad idea for your city - then don't give them. If someone else will make the mistake, let them make the mistake (and reap the consequences).

JumpCrisscross 8y ago

> Newly elected Democrats in the NY state legislature might block the NYC Amazon subsidies and put the funds into student debt relief instead I doubt this is a real risk. The Governor is strongly behind this proposal, and has a lot of goodies to trade with the Senate. More likely: Amazon's move prompts new spending on infrastructure and community development around LIC and in random upstate districts whose votes are needed.