7 ms·

Loyalty can only exist between individuals. Never be loyal to a company because a company will never be loyal to you.

by ElBarto 8y ago

mandelbrotwurst 8y ago
Loyalty can exist without reciprocity.
- lostcolony 8y ago
  Yes, but should it?
- ElBarto 8y ago
  Which is madness in the business world, and perhaps outside of it as well.
- ben509 8y ago
  Loyalty is specifically distinct from reciprocity.
Raphmedia 8y ago
Fun fact: loyalty to the employer is often considered as being written into the law of the province I live in. https://www.educaloi.qc.ca/en/capsules/being-loyal-your-employer https://www.educaloi.qc.ca/en/capsules/being-loyal-your-empl... | 2088. The employee is bound not only to perform his work with prudence and diligence, but also to act faithfully and honestly and not use any confidential information he obtains in the performance or in the course of his work. | These obligations continue for a reasonable time after the contract terminates and permanently where the information concerns the reputation and privacy of others.
- dv_dt 8y ago
  Not disclosing confidential information is more ethics than loyalty. That that may fall under a legal definition of loyalty in some areas, but I think in more common parlance that behavior would just be professionalism. Even then there has to be some degree of judiciousness between what a company might consider confidential and what is just industry knowledge. And over time, a lot of what might be held confidential, becomes common practice too.
- ElBarto 8y ago
  Yes but that's "legal loyalty", basically being honest, which is not the same as e.g. making efforts or sacrifices out of loyalty.
  - Raphmedia 8y ago
    Agreed, that's why I worded it as "is often considered". The law being a bit vague, employers often present it as employees needing to be personally loyal. The law asks one to "act faithfully". Faithfully can easily be used as a synonym for devoted and some employers ask a religious devotion to the company.
    - ElBarto 8y ago
      I can assure you that the law is very clear and established. Employees are often not very knowledgeable about it, though. And in any case some jurisdictions have employment at will...
      - deleted 8y ago
        [deleted]
vinceguidry 8y ago
The way loyalty has always worked is that your first loyalty is to individuals, like yourself, your family, boss and immediate coworkers, and your second loyalty is to the collective you all belong to, like your company, extended family and neighborhood. People who can't recognize second loyalties can't be trusted, and need to be weeded out of an organization before it hits hard times, otherwise they just won't be able to be relied on. Your company isn't just some faceless entity interested only in profits. It's face is all of you and it exists to keep all of you fed and with a roof over your head. A company with a headcount of 40 people can provide for 200+ individuals. All 40 of those will work together to bail out the company because the company provides for themselves and their families. It's simply immature to not recognize that. You shouldn't be expected to choose your second loyalty over your first, except in very rare situations. But those situations exist and you should recognize them. When it's crunch time, it's crunch time. Crunch time all the time demands a re-evaluation of priorities, but so long as it's relatively rare, put in the hours and build solidarity with the people you're working hard with. You shouldn't make your second loyalty your first, is how the sentiment should be expressed.
- kryogen1c 8y ago
  I've never researched company and interpersonal loyalty, but this rings exactly true for me. It is possible to be only be loyal to each other and destroy your company, a la tragedy of the commons. Loyalty to coworkers naturally includes loyalty to the company, because (ostensibly) if the company does better, everyone working there does better. I don't understand the impulse to steal or skimp or be lazy. It seems short sighted and damaging.
  - closetohome 8y ago
    > if the company does better, everyone working there does better Is the theory, but rarely the reality. The truth is that at any company of a certain size or larger, you're a replaceable cog, and nothing you do - positive or negative - will affect the trajectory of the company. It's easy to become cynical in that environment.
    - 8y ago
SonicSoul 8y ago
this seems overly cynical. companies are absolutely loyal and stand by their employees. that match is rare, just as it is rare to find another person that will stay with you through good and bad times

Loyalty can only exist between individuals. Never be loyal to a company because a company will never be loyal to you.

mandelbrotwurst 8y ago

Loyalty can exist without reciprocity.

lostcolony 8y ago
Yes, but should it?
ElBarto 8y ago
Which is madness in the business world, and perhaps outside of it as well.
ben509 8y ago
Loyalty is specifically distinct from reciprocity.

Raphmedia 8y ago

Fun fact: loyalty to the employer is often considered as being written into the law of the province I live in. https://www.educaloi.qc.ca/en/capsules/being-loyal-your-employer https://www.educaloi.qc.ca/en/capsules/being-loyal-your-empl... | 2088. The employee is bound not only to perform his work with prudence and diligence, but also to act faithfully and honestly and not use any confidential information he obtains in the performance or in the course of his work. | These obligations continue for a reasonable time after the contract terminates and permanently where the information concerns the reputation and privacy of others.

dv_dt 8y ago
Not disclosing confidential information is more ethics than loyalty. That that may fall under a legal definition of loyalty in some areas, but I think in more common parlance that behavior would just be professionalism. Even then there has to be some degree of judiciousness between what a company might consider confidential and what is just industry knowledge. And over time, a lot of what might be held confidential, becomes common practice too.
ElBarto 8y ago
Yes but that's "legal loyalty", basically being honest, which is not the same as e.g. making efforts or sacrifices out of loyalty.
- Raphmedia 8y ago
  Agreed, that's why I worded it as "is often considered". The law being a bit vague, employers often present it as employees needing to be personally loyal. The law asks one to "act faithfully". Faithfully can easily be used as a synonym for devoted and some employers ask a religious devotion to the company.
  - ElBarto 8y ago
    I can assure you that the law is very clear and established. Employees are often not very knowledgeable about it, though. And in any case some jurisdictions have employment at will...
    - deleted 8y ago
      [deleted]

vinceguidry 8y ago

The way loyalty has always worked is that your first loyalty is to individuals, like yourself, your family, boss and immediate coworkers, and your second loyalty is to the collective you all belong to, like your company, extended family and neighborhood. People who can't recognize second loyalties can't be trusted, and need to be weeded out of an organization before it hits hard times, otherwise they just won't be able to be relied on. Your company isn't just some faceless entity interested only in profits. It's face is all of you and it exists to keep all of you fed and with a roof over your head. A company with a headcount of 40 people can provide for 200+ individuals. All 40 of those will work together to bail out the company because the company provides for themselves and their families. It's simply immature to not recognize that. You shouldn't be expected to choose your second loyalty over your first, except in very rare situations. But those situations exist and you should recognize them. When it's crunch time, it's crunch time. Crunch time all the time demands a re-evaluation of priorities, but so long as it's relatively rare, put in the hours and build solidarity with the people you're working hard with. You shouldn't make your second loyalty your first, is how the sentiment should be expressed.

kryogen1c 8y ago
I've never researched company and interpersonal loyalty, but this rings exactly true for me. It is possible to be only be loyal to each other and destroy your company, a la tragedy of the commons. Loyalty to coworkers naturally includes loyalty to the company, because (ostensibly) if the company does better, everyone working there does better. I don't understand the impulse to steal or skimp or be lazy. It seems short sighted and damaging.
- closetohome 8y ago
  > if the company does better, everyone working there does better Is the theory, but rarely the reality. The truth is that at any company of a certain size or larger, you're a replaceable cog, and nothing you do - positive or negative - will affect the trajectory of the company. It's easy to become cynical in that environment.
  - 8y ago

SonicSoul 8y ago

this seems overly cynical. companies are absolutely loyal and stand by their employees. that match is rare, just as it is rare to find another person that will stay with you through good and bad times