7 ms·

China (in the guise of the Chinese Communist Party) versus Islam is a bit like the clash of nations, two irreconcilable doctrines which each want to have a tota

China (in the guise of the Chinese Communist Party) versus Islam is a bit like the clash of nations, two irreconcilable doctrines which each want to have a total say over the way people live their lives. When China gets its way - as it mostly does in the country - things start to resemble a cross between 'Gatacca' [1], Brave New World [2] and Down and out in the Magic Kingdom [3] (especially the concept of social credit [4]). When Islam gets its way - as it did in parts of Syria and the Levant and as it partly does in places like Saudi-Arabia and Iran - you get a pre-medieval theocracy where you either submit or get killed. When both of them try to get their way you get conflict, as shown by this report and others. In the end one of them will have to give in in some way, either by allowing the CCP to influence their doctrine - as the Roman Catholic church did - or by going underground - like practitoners of Falun Gong did after their practice fell out of grace with the party. The chance of the CCP giving in to any other doctrine is slim and the likeliness of something like that happening without conflict even slimmer. The future does not look promising in this respect, the past is littered with the remnants of such conflicts - Tiananmen square [5] etc. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gattaca https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gattaca [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brave_New_World https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brave_New_World [3] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Down_and_Out_in_the_Magic_Kingdom https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Down_and_Out_in_the_Magic_King... [4] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whuffie https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whuffie [5] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1989_Tiananmen_Square_protests https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1989_Tiananmen_Square_protests

afroboy 8y ago
Are you ok? what type of comparison is this? how does US allowed Muslims to practice their religion in peace without problem?
- testvox 8y ago
  Are you ok? Where did the parent say anything about the United States?
- philwelch 8y ago
  There are over a billion Muslims in the world. Many of them can and do live peaceably in liberal, secularized societies--but not all, as evidenced by the Boston Marathon bombings, the Fort Hood shooting, the Pulse Nightclub shooting, and the San Bernadino shooting. The United States faces less Islamist terrorism than Europe or the Middle East, not only because the US has a much smaller Muslim population and significant barriers to immigration, but also because American Muslims (with certain noted exceptions) tend to be more likely to accept liberalized values than Muslims elsewhere in the world.
- Gibbon1 8y ago
  Two reason the US is different than China. One the US social political structure makes is very hard for religious zealots to gain control. Note how hard the Dominionist Christians have been trying for the last 100 years. Their political wins have failed to deliver completely on a societal basis. Second reason Muslims in the US generally hate Salafism and Wahhabism. China on the other hand isn't going to let Saudi Arabia engineer a Wahhabi led revolt in western China.
  - afroboy 8y ago
    It's their land, China just took it they don't even speak mandarin or Cantonese they don't look like them let them live their own lives why we should force our views on other nations and remove their tradition because their difference than us?
deleted 8y ago
[deleted]
dang 8y ago
It's not ok to use HN for religious and nationalistic and ideological flamewar, which you somehow managed to combine. Please keep such tedious, inflammatory boilerplate off this site. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
- Yetanfou 8y ago
  The article details the results of the conflict between religion and state and in that context my reaction is to the point. Stating that a reaction to such an article is analogous to a 'religious and nationalistic and ideological flamewar' is inane, in that case the article itself should not have been posted or the comment function should have been disabled.
  - dang 8y ago
    We don't disable comments on articles, we ask commenters to follow the guidelines and use HN as intended: for the gratification of intellectual curiosity, not blaring agendas or pre-existing talking points.
    - Yetanfou 8y ago
      I'm surprised by your insistence on labeling my comment as 'blaring agendas or pre-existing talking', maybe you should read it again? Consider the implications of the clash between the Chinese Communist Party and Islam - because that is what is going on here, both the conflict as well as the party's reaction are comparable to that between the CCP and the practice of Falun Gong - and you'll end up at the same point: one side has to give in and the chance of that being the CCP is slim. The chance of the Uyghurs (whether it be the pan-Islamists of the East Turkestan Islamic Movement, the pan-Turkic East Turkestan Liberation Organization, the "Uyghurstan" East Turkestan independence movement or any of the other groups which comprise the non-homogeneous region of Xinjang) submitting to the wills of the CCP is also slim, read up on the history of the region and you'll find a number of recent conflicts with similar roots.
      - 8y ago

afroboy 8y ago

Are you ok? what type of comparison is this? how does US allowed Muslims to practice their religion in peace without problem?

testvox 8y ago
Are you ok? Where did the parent say anything about the United States?
philwelch 8y ago
There are over a billion Muslims in the world. Many of them can and do live peaceably in liberal, secularized societies--but not all, as evidenced by the Boston Marathon bombings, the Fort Hood shooting, the Pulse Nightclub shooting, and the San Bernadino shooting. The United States faces less Islamist terrorism than Europe or the Middle East, not only because the US has a much smaller Muslim population and significant barriers to immigration, but also because American Muslims (with certain noted exceptions) tend to be more likely to accept liberalized values than Muslims elsewhere in the world.
Gibbon1 8y ago
Two reason the US is different than China. One the US social political structure makes is very hard for religious zealots to gain control. Note how hard the Dominionist Christians have been trying for the last 100 years. Their political wins have failed to deliver completely on a societal basis. Second reason Muslims in the US generally hate Salafism and Wahhabism. China on the other hand isn't going to let Saudi Arabia engineer a Wahhabi led revolt in western China.
- afroboy 8y ago
  It's their land, China just took it they don't even speak mandarin or Cantonese they don't look like them let them live their own lives why we should force our views on other nations and remove their tradition because their difference than us?

deleted 8y ago

[deleted]

dang 8y ago

It's not ok to use HN for religious and nationalistic and ideological flamewar, which you somehow managed to combine. Please keep such tedious, inflammatory boilerplate off this site. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Yetanfou 8y ago
The article details the results of the conflict between religion and state and in that context my reaction is to the point. Stating that a reaction to such an article is analogous to a 'religious and nationalistic and ideological flamewar' is inane, in that case the article itself should not have been posted or the comment function should have been disabled.
- dang 8y ago
  We don't disable comments on articles, we ask commenters to follow the guidelines and use HN as intended: for the gratification of intellectual curiosity, not blaring agendas or pre-existing talking points.
  - Yetanfou 8y ago
    I'm surprised by your insistence on labeling my comment as 'blaring agendas or pre-existing talking', maybe you should read it again? Consider the implications of the clash between the Chinese Communist Party and Islam - because that is what is going on here, both the conflict as well as the party's reaction are comparable to that between the CCP and the practice of Falun Gong - and you'll end up at the same point: one side has to give in and the chance of that being the CCP is slim. The chance of the Uyghurs (whether it be the pan-Islamists of the East Turkestan Islamic Movement, the pan-Turkic East Turkestan Liberation Organization, the "Uyghurstan" East Turkestan independence movement or any of the other groups which comprise the non-homogeneous region of Xinjang) submitting to the wills of the CCP is also slim, read up on the history of the region and you'll find a number of recent conflicts with similar roots.
    - 8y ago