4 ms·

This sort of false equivalency is unhelpful. It requires a great lack of judgment to believe the U.S. is comparable to the regime overseeing Xianjing on domesti

by Niten 8y ago

This sort of false equivalency is unhelpful. It requires a great lack of judgment to believe the U.S. is comparable to the regime overseeing Xianjing on domestic internet surveillance.

okmokmz 8y ago
It seems naive to believe that the US isn't comparable to China when it comes to surveillance considering the actions taken and information that has come out, particulary since 9/11 https://www.aclu.org/issues/national-security/privacy-and-surveillance/nsa-surveillance https://www.aclu.org/issues/national-security/privacy-and-su... https://theintercept.com/2018/06/25/att-internet-nsa-spy-hubs/ https://theintercept.com/2018/06/25/att-internet-nsa-spy-hub... http://thefreethoughtproject.com/national-id-hr4760-biometrics/ http://thefreethoughtproject.com/national-id-hr4760-biometri... https://www.theverge.com/2018/1/26/16932350/ice-immigration-customs-license-plate-recognition-contract-vigilant-solutions https://www.theverge.com/2018/1/26/16932350/ice-immigration-... https://theintercept.com/2018/01/19/voice-recognition-technology-nsa/ https://theintercept.com/2018/01/19/voice-recognition-techno... https://www.zdnet.com/article/us-cell-carriers-selling-access-to-real-time-location-data/ https://www.zdnet.com/article/us-cell-carriers-selling-acces... https://theintercept.com/2018/06/25/att-internet-nsa-spy-hubs/ https://theintercept.com/2018/06/25/att-internet-nsa-spy-hub... https://freedom.press/news/revealed-justice-depts-secret-rules-targeting-journalists-fisa-court-orders/ https://freedom.press/news/revealed-justice-depts-secret-rul... https://www.eff.org/nsa-spying https://www.eff.org/nsa-spying https://www.eff.org/cases/first-unitarian-church-los-angeles-v-nsa https://www.eff.org/cases/first-unitarian-church-los-angeles... https://www.eff.org/cases/jewel https://www.eff.org/cases/jewel https://www.eff.org/cases/hepting https://www.eff.org/cases/hepting https://www.eff.org/cases/smith-v-obama https://www.eff.org/cases/smith-v-obama https://apnews.com/d69a8e6db867477795f4152d0511bbf9 https://apnews.com/d69a8e6db867477795f4152d0511bbf9 https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/posteverything/wp/2018/01/25/how-to-fight-mass-surveillance-even-though-congress-just-reauthorized-it/?utm_term=.ced1b673b9fa https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/posteverything/wp/2018/0... https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-security-records-factbox/factbox-history-of-mass-surveillance-in-the-united-states-idUSBRE95617O20130607 https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-security-records-fact... edit: Why the downvotes with no response despite my comment being entirely relevant? If anyone would like to explain/counter I would be curious to hear their reasoning
- stareatgoats 8y ago
  I assume the "US is comparable to China" assertion rubbed a few people the wrong way. This link collection shows the gravity of the situation in the US, and that US is drifting towards totalitarianism, without having reached that stage by a long shot. The surveillance scope is quantitatively different in the two countries, given the expressed totalitarian nature of the Chinese regime.
  - scottlocklin 8y ago
    Something I ask myself all the time: how will I be able to tell when we've reached actual totalitarianism in the West? It won't be Chinese style totalitarianism, and I'm pretty sure they won't helpfully dress up in jackboots and announce things have reached peak totalitarianism. Would we notice at all?
  - wongarsu 8y ago
    I think the US is very big on internet surveilance and is probably beyond what China does. You don't have to be totalitarian to do surveilance, there's plenty of other reasons to do it (though once you have the data the temptation grows to use it for totalitarian uses)
distantsounds 8y ago
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Room_641A https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Room_641A Sure.
bigmonads 8y ago
It requires a small amount of context and history - and virtually no judgement. You may not like the Chinese or foreign governments, but hacker news isn't a place to express that bigotry.
excalibur 8y ago
It looks like you may be confusing surveillance with censorship.

by Niten 8y ago

This sort of false equivalency is unhelpful. It requires a great lack of judgment to believe the U.S. is comparable to the regime overseeing Xianjing on domestic internet surveillance.

okmokmz 8y ago

It seems naive to believe that the US isn't comparable to China when it comes to surveillance considering the actions taken and information that has come out, particulary since 9/11 https://www.aclu.org/issues/national-security/privacy-and-surveillance/nsa-surveillance https://www.aclu.org/issues/national-security/privacy-and-su... https://theintercept.com/2018/06/25/att-internet-nsa-spy-hubs/ https://theintercept.com/2018/06/25/att-internet-nsa-spy-hub... http://thefreethoughtproject.com/national-id-hr4760-biometrics/ http://thefreethoughtproject.com/national-id-hr4760-biometri... https://www.theverge.com/2018/1/26/16932350/ice-immigration-customs-license-plate-recognition-contract-vigilant-solutions https://www.theverge.com/2018/1/26/16932350/ice-immigration-... https://theintercept.com/2018/01/19/voice-recognition-technology-nsa/ https://theintercept.com/2018/01/19/voice-recognition-techno... https://www.zdnet.com/article/us-cell-carriers-selling-access-to-real-time-location-data/ https://www.zdnet.com/article/us-cell-carriers-selling-acces... https://theintercept.com/2018/06/25/att-internet-nsa-spy-hubs/ https://theintercept.com/2018/06/25/att-internet-nsa-spy-hub... https://freedom.press/news/revealed-justice-depts-secret-rules-targeting-journalists-fisa-court-orders/ https://freedom.press/news/revealed-justice-depts-secret-rul... https://www.eff.org/nsa-spying https://www.eff.org/nsa-spying https://www.eff.org/cases/first-unitarian-church-los-angeles-v-nsa https://www.eff.org/cases/first-unitarian-church-los-angeles... https://www.eff.org/cases/jewel https://www.eff.org/cases/jewel https://www.eff.org/cases/hepting https://www.eff.org/cases/hepting https://www.eff.org/cases/smith-v-obama https://www.eff.org/cases/smith-v-obama https://apnews.com/d69a8e6db867477795f4152d0511bbf9 https://apnews.com/d69a8e6db867477795f4152d0511bbf9 https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/posteverything/wp/2018/01/25/how-to-fight-mass-surveillance-even-though-congress-just-reauthorized-it/?utm_term=.ced1b673b9fa https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/posteverything/wp/2018/0... https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-security-records-factbox/factbox-history-of-mass-surveillance-in-the-united-states-idUSBRE95617O20130607 https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-security-records-fact... edit: Why the downvotes with no response despite my comment being entirely relevant? If anyone would like to explain/counter I would be curious to hear their reasoning

stareatgoats 8y ago
I assume the "US is comparable to China" assertion rubbed a few people the wrong way. This link collection shows the gravity of the situation in the US, and that US is drifting towards totalitarianism, without having reached that stage by a long shot. The surveillance scope is quantitatively different in the two countries, given the expressed totalitarian nature of the Chinese regime.
- scottlocklin 8y ago
  Something I ask myself all the time: how will I be able to tell when we've reached actual totalitarianism in the West? It won't be Chinese style totalitarianism, and I'm pretty sure they won't helpfully dress up in jackboots and announce things have reached peak totalitarianism. Would we notice at all?
- wongarsu 8y ago
  I think the US is very big on internet surveilance and is probably beyond what China does. You don't have to be totalitarian to do surveilance, there's plenty of other reasons to do it (though once you have the data the temptation grows to use it for totalitarian uses)

distantsounds 8y ago

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Room_641A https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Room_641A Sure.

bigmonads 8y ago

It requires a small amount of context and history - and virtually no judgement. You may not like the Chinese or foreign governments, but hacker news isn't a place to express that bigotry.

excalibur 8y ago

It looks like you may be confusing surveillance with censorship.