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"... countries with a long history of Internet surveillance." Pot, meet kettle. Seriously, how is this even worth a mention? The US invented wholesale internet

"... countries with a long history of Internet surveillance." Pot, meet kettle. Seriously, how is this even worth a mention? The US invented wholesale internet surveillance.

jonathanoliver 8y ago
...and the internet.
- social_quotient 8y ago
  ...and wholesale.
S_A_P 8y ago
This is true, and Im not in support of wholesale surveillance with out reasonable cause and the associated court documents. That said, I don't think I would want to go to Russia or China and say, google "How to overthrow the government". I would expect someone would want to speak with me pretty quickly after I did that...
- vkazanov 8y ago
  I suspect that in every relatively developed country nowadays executing systematic requests of the kind you mentioned would get you some kind of personal attention. That's why they invented it, right? To make sure the political status quo does not change. That includes political systems in the US, UK, China and Russia.
- okmokmz 8y ago
  >That said, I don't think I would want to go to Russia or China and say, google "How to overthrow the government". I would expect someone would want to speak with me pretty quickly after I did that... That doesn't mean the US isn't performing the same level of surveillance/tracking, just that they aren't publicly picking up dissenters. In reality, if they were really worried, they'd hit you with a gag order and charge you in the FISA courts so you can't go public https://freedom.press/news/revealed-justice-depts-secret-rules-targeting-journalists-fisa-court-orders/ https://freedom.press/news/revealed-justice-depts-secret-rul...
Niten 8y ago
This sort of false equivalency is unhelpful. It requires a great lack of judgment to believe the U.S. is comparable to the regime overseeing Xianjing on domestic internet surveillance.
- okmokmz 8y ago
  It seems naive to believe that the US isn't comparable to China when it comes to surveillance considering the actions taken and information that has come out, particulary since 9/11 https://www.aclu.org/issues/national-security/privacy-and-surveillance/nsa-surveillance https://www.aclu.org/issues/national-security/privacy-and-su... https://theintercept.com/2018/06/25/att-internet-nsa-spy-hubs/ https://theintercept.com/2018/06/25/att-internet-nsa-spy-hub... http://thefreethoughtproject.com/national-id-hr4760-biometrics/ http://thefreethoughtproject.com/national-id-hr4760-biometri... https://www.theverge.com/2018/1/26/16932350/ice-immigration-customs-license-plate-recognition-contract-vigilant-solutions https://www.theverge.com/2018/1/26/16932350/ice-immigration-... https://theintercept.com/2018/01/19/voice-recognition-technology-nsa/ https://theintercept.com/2018/01/19/voice-recognition-techno... https://www.zdnet.com/article/us-cell-carriers-selling-access-to-real-time-location-data/ https://www.zdnet.com/article/us-cell-carriers-selling-acces... https://theintercept.com/2018/06/25/att-internet-nsa-spy-hubs/ https://theintercept.com/2018/06/25/att-internet-nsa-spy-hub... https://freedom.press/news/revealed-justice-depts-secret-rules-targeting-journalists-fisa-court-orders/ https://freedom.press/news/revealed-justice-depts-secret-rul... https://www.eff.org/nsa-spying https://www.eff.org/nsa-spying https://www.eff.org/cases/first-unitarian-church-los-angeles-v-nsa https://www.eff.org/cases/first-unitarian-church-los-angeles... https://www.eff.org/cases/jewel https://www.eff.org/cases/jewel https://www.eff.org/cases/hepting https://www.eff.org/cases/hepting https://www.eff.org/cases/smith-v-obama https://www.eff.org/cases/smith-v-obama https://apnews.com/d69a8e6db867477795f4152d0511bbf9 https://apnews.com/d69a8e6db867477795f4152d0511bbf9 https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/posteverything/wp/2018/01/25/how-to-fight-mass-surveillance-even-though-congress-just-reauthorized-it/?utm_term=.ced1b673b9fa https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/posteverything/wp/2018/0... https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-security-records-factbox/factbox-history-of-mass-surveillance-in-the-united-states-idUSBRE95617O20130607 https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-security-records-fact... edit: Why the downvotes with no response despite my comment being entirely relevant? If anyone would like to explain/counter I would be curious to hear their reasoning

"... countries with a long history of Internet surveillance." Pot, meet kettle. Seriously, how is this even worth a mention? The US invented wholesale internet surveillance.

jonathanoliver 8y ago

...and the internet.

social_quotient 8y ago
...and wholesale.

S_A_P 8y ago

This is true, and Im not in support of wholesale surveillance with out reasonable cause and the associated court documents. That said, I don't think I would want to go to Russia or China and say, google "How to overthrow the government". I would expect someone would want to speak with me pretty quickly after I did that...

vkazanov 8y ago
I suspect that in every relatively developed country nowadays executing systematic requests of the kind you mentioned would get you some kind of personal attention. That's why they invented it, right? To make sure the political status quo does not change. That includes political systems in the US, UK, China and Russia.
okmokmz 8y ago
>That said, I don't think I would want to go to Russia or China and say, google "How to overthrow the government". I would expect someone would want to speak with me pretty quickly after I did that... That doesn't mean the US isn't performing the same level of surveillance/tracking, just that they aren't publicly picking up dissenters. In reality, if they were really worried, they'd hit you with a gag order and charge you in the FISA courts so you can't go public https://freedom.press/news/revealed-justice-depts-secret-rules-targeting-journalists-fisa-court-orders/ https://freedom.press/news/revealed-justice-depts-secret-rul...

Niten 8y ago

This sort of false equivalency is unhelpful. It requires a great lack of judgment to believe the U.S. is comparable to the regime overseeing Xianjing on domestic internet surveillance.

okmokmz 8y ago
It seems naive to believe that the US isn't comparable to China when it comes to surveillance considering the actions taken and information that has come out, particulary since 9/11 https://www.aclu.org/issues/national-security/privacy-and-surveillance/nsa-surveillance https://www.aclu.org/issues/national-security/privacy-and-su... https://theintercept.com/2018/06/25/att-internet-nsa-spy-hubs/ https://theintercept.com/2018/06/25/att-internet-nsa-spy-hub... http://thefreethoughtproject.com/national-id-hr4760-biometrics/ http://thefreethoughtproject.com/national-id-hr4760-biometri... https://www.theverge.com/2018/1/26/16932350/ice-immigration-customs-license-plate-recognition-contract-vigilant-solutions https://www.theverge.com/2018/1/26/16932350/ice-immigration-... https://theintercept.com/2018/01/19/voice-recognition-technology-nsa/ https://theintercept.com/2018/01/19/voice-recognition-techno... https://www.zdnet.com/article/us-cell-carriers-selling-access-to-real-time-location-data/ https://www.zdnet.com/article/us-cell-carriers-selling-acces... https://theintercept.com/2018/06/25/att-internet-nsa-spy-hubs/ https://theintercept.com/2018/06/25/att-internet-nsa-spy-hub... https://freedom.press/news/revealed-justice-depts-secret-rules-targeting-journalists-fisa-court-orders/ https://freedom.press/news/revealed-justice-depts-secret-rul... https://www.eff.org/nsa-spying https://www.eff.org/nsa-spying https://www.eff.org/cases/first-unitarian-church-los-angeles-v-nsa https://www.eff.org/cases/first-unitarian-church-los-angeles... https://www.eff.org/cases/jewel https://www.eff.org/cases/jewel https://www.eff.org/cases/hepting https://www.eff.org/cases/hepting https://www.eff.org/cases/smith-v-obama https://www.eff.org/cases/smith-v-obama https://apnews.com/d69a8e6db867477795f4152d0511bbf9 https://apnews.com/d69a8e6db867477795f4152d0511bbf9 https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/posteverything/wp/2018/01/25/how-to-fight-mass-surveillance-even-though-congress-just-reauthorized-it/?utm_term=.ced1b673b9fa https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/posteverything/wp/2018/0... https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-security-records-factbox/factbox-history-of-mass-surveillance-in-the-united-states-idUSBRE95617O20130607 https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-security-records-fact... edit: Why the downvotes with no response despite my comment being entirely relevant? If anyone would like to explain/counter I would be curious to hear their reasoning