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> The entire history of Europe is one of constant, vicious and brutal wars. By that measure, the rest of the world is the same, with vicious and brutal wars ev

> The entire history of Europe is one of constant, vicious and brutal wars. By that measure, the rest of the world is the same, with vicious and brutal wars everywhere since the dawn of civilization.

weberc2 8y ago
Except that Europe in general kept better written records than much of the rest of the world, so we’re more familiar with its violence.
- cm2187 8y ago
  Agree. A good example is the Mongol empire, which I wasn't familiar with at all (it is barely covered by any european school history book). Dan Carlin made an interesting series of podcasts on the topic [1]. The Mongols barely left any written trace but wiped out entires cities and regions [2]. [1] https://www.dancarlin.com/product/hardcore-history-43-wrath-of-the-khans-i/ https://www.dancarlin.com/product/hardcore-history-43-wrath-... https://www.dancarlin.com/product/hardcore-history-44-wrath-of-the-khans-ii/ https://www.dancarlin.com/product/hardcore-history-44-wrath-... https://www.dancarlin.com/product/hardcore-history-45-wrath-of-the-khans-iii/ https://www.dancarlin.com/product/hardcore-history-45-wrath-... https://www.dancarlin.com/product/hardcore-history-46-wrath-of-the-khans-iv/ https://www.dancarlin.com/product/hardcore-history-46-wrath-... https://www.dancarlin.com/product/hardcore-history-47-wrath-of-the-khans-v/ https://www.dancarlin.com/product/hardcore-history-47-wrath-... [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Destruction_under_the_Mongol_Empire#Demographic_changes_in_war-torn_areas https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Destruction_under_the_Mongol_E...
  - qubax 8y ago
    Dan Carlin is not a historian, he is an entertainer. His podcasts are entertaining fiction, not history. > The Mongols barely left any written trace but wiped out entires cities and regions [2]. They left tons of written traces - in muscovy russia, in yuan china, in mughal persia, etc. You can't maintain such a large empire consisting of many civilizations without records. Most of it disappeared over the years as the empire broke apart and different empires formed. Much of the history of the mongol empire is twisted propaganda, like all history. But it's especially so for the mongol empire due to shifting change of nationalistic, ethnic and racial landscape. Here in the west, the mongol empire is caricatured and hated for racial reasons. In other parts of the world, the mongol empire is admired. In most of the world, it's a bit of both. Also, most old empires, including the chinese, romans, greeks, indians, mesopotamians, egyptians, etc left very few records relatively speaking.
barrow-rider 8y ago
Europe didn't have any of the large, stable empires like a lot of the rest of the world, i.e. China's various empires, Sassanid Persia, Mughal India, etc. That's not to say that violence didn't happen, things didn't fall apart -- they sure did -- but compared to Europe they had 200-300 year stretches of relative peace.
- iguy 8y ago
  I think China might be the outlier here, not Europe. (Thinking of the last 1000 years, say.) India was very fragmented -- the Mughals achieved great extent and then great longevity, but not both at the same time.

> The entire history of Europe is one of constant, vicious and brutal wars. By that measure, the rest of the world is the same, with vicious and brutal wars everywhere since the dawn of civilization.

weberc2 8y ago

Except that Europe in general kept better written records than much of the rest of the world, so we’re more familiar with its violence.

cm2187 8y ago
Agree. A good example is the Mongol empire, which I wasn't familiar with at all (it is barely covered by any european school history book). Dan Carlin made an interesting series of podcasts on the topic [1]. The Mongols barely left any written trace but wiped out entires cities and regions [2]. [1] https://www.dancarlin.com/product/hardcore-history-43-wrath-of-the-khans-i/ https://www.dancarlin.com/product/hardcore-history-43-wrath-... https://www.dancarlin.com/product/hardcore-history-44-wrath-of-the-khans-ii/ https://www.dancarlin.com/product/hardcore-history-44-wrath-... https://www.dancarlin.com/product/hardcore-history-45-wrath-of-the-khans-iii/ https://www.dancarlin.com/product/hardcore-history-45-wrath-... https://www.dancarlin.com/product/hardcore-history-46-wrath-of-the-khans-iv/ https://www.dancarlin.com/product/hardcore-history-46-wrath-... https://www.dancarlin.com/product/hardcore-history-47-wrath-of-the-khans-v/ https://www.dancarlin.com/product/hardcore-history-47-wrath-... [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Destruction_under_the_Mongol_Empire#Demographic_changes_in_war-torn_areas https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Destruction_under_the_Mongol_E...
- qubax 8y ago
  Dan Carlin is not a historian, he is an entertainer. His podcasts are entertaining fiction, not history. > The Mongols barely left any written trace but wiped out entires cities and regions [2]. They left tons of written traces - in muscovy russia, in yuan china, in mughal persia, etc. You can't maintain such a large empire consisting of many civilizations without records. Most of it disappeared over the years as the empire broke apart and different empires formed. Much of the history of the mongol empire is twisted propaganda, like all history. But it's especially so for the mongol empire due to shifting change of nationalistic, ethnic and racial landscape. Here in the west, the mongol empire is caricatured and hated for racial reasons. In other parts of the world, the mongol empire is admired. In most of the world, it's a bit of both. Also, most old empires, including the chinese, romans, greeks, indians, mesopotamians, egyptians, etc left very few records relatively speaking.

barrow-rider 8y ago

Europe didn't have any of the large, stable empires like a lot of the rest of the world, i.e. China's various empires, Sassanid Persia, Mughal India, etc. That's not to say that violence didn't happen, things didn't fall apart -- they sure did -- but compared to Europe they had 200-300 year stretches of relative peace.

iguy 8y ago
I think China might be the outlier here, not Europe. (Thinking of the last 1000 years, say.) India was very fragmented -- the Mughals achieved great extent and then great longevity, but not both at the same time.