4 ms·

The most common filament used (PLA) is labeled as non toxic and is made of mostly corn. So yes it would be surprising if that was found to be toxic.

by ndnxhs 8y ago

rvense 8y ago
I don't find this surprising, knowing that fried or baked starchy foods contain at least one carcinogenic element, called acrylamide. Its name sounds nasty and it's provably quite bad, but bread is still one of the corner stones civilization. We need to quantify these risks, educate builders and make 3D printers as safe as possible, but TFA did give me a slight sense of alarmism.
tinus_hn 8y ago
You know these labels on cigarettes that state the smoke contains at least 253 toxic chemicals? The smoke from other plants of course contains at least about 200 of the same chemicals.
- goldenkey 8y ago
  People think the formaldehyde and all these other chemicals with spooky names were added by the bad cigarette companies..but not so!! Whenever any hydrocarbon is burned, a characteristic distribution of alkanes, alkenes, and alkynes is formed -- with the nastiest and most "radical" chemicals (like the alkynes), appearing with the lowest frequency. That's why smoking has almost no risk unless repeated. With enough exposure, those minimal alkynes add up. And they destroy DNA and wreak general havok due to their bond energy. I know I just reiterated your point. Thank you for making the point - smoke is what is a probabilistic distribution of energetic hydrocarbons -- not the plant!!
- josefresco 8y ago
  7,000 chemicals when smoked, 250 of which are harmful, about 70 of which are carcinogens. 599 additives.
- tomatotomato37 8y ago
  That's one of the things that amuses me about these new studies coming out showing smoking marijuana is healthier than nicotine. Yeah that may be so, but that doesn't mean you have to smoke it over like putting it in a tea or something
newnewpdro 8y ago
You should probably review the MSDS for the specific filament you're working with. The first one I looked up [1] contains 1,4-Dioxane [2]. In my experience any time you heat up plastic you're risking exposure to dangerous VOCs. It doesn't matter if most of the molecules were derived from corn. There are plenty of things labeled "non-toxic" which, when heated, produce toxic fumes. Pretty much every children's toy in existence is toxic to breathe when melted. [1] https://images.makerbot.com/support/production/SDS-000002ENA.pdf https://images.makerbot.com/support/production/SDS-000002ENA... [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1,4-Dioxane https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1,4-Dioxane
- VLM 8y ago
  It would seem there's an obvious startup opportunity for filaments that are sold based on cleanliness of product rather than the current marketplace of pigment and cost. It would seem trivial to distill out the dioxane to an unreasonably low impurity level. As with pharma, people may not like the cost of synthetic pure bespoke molecules, but some will sell.
- 08-15 8y ago
  The linked MSDS says "dioxane-dione-dimethyl-polymer", which is better known as PLA. It contains dioxane in the same way table salt contains sodium.
deng 8y ago
Olive oil is non-toxic, yet if you heat it up too much, you'll get a good dose of acrolein. Just because something is non-toxic does not mean it stays that way if you heat it up.
- ravenstine 8y ago
  It depends on how much you heat it up, though. What people are expecting from 3D printers is enough heat to melt the filament but not too much so the filament releases fumes or burns. I'm not saying that's how it works in practice, but I think that's how people see it and why they're surprised.
phkahler 8y ago
>> So yes it would be surprising if that was found to be toxic. Tiny particulates are extremely bad for your lungs when inhaled and it doesn't matter much what they are made of. PLA is not "made of mostly corn" just because the material originates there. If you printed a corn-cob pipe with PLA it would still be plastic.

The most common filament used (PLA) is labeled as non toxic and is made of mostly corn. So yes it would be surprising if that was found to be toxic.

by ndnxhs 8y ago

The most common filament used (PLA) is labeled as non toxic and is made of mostly corn. So yes it would be surprising if that was found to be toxic.

rvense 8y ago

I don't find this surprising, knowing that fried or baked starchy foods contain at least one carcinogenic element, called acrylamide. Its name sounds nasty and it's provably quite bad, but bread is still one of the corner stones civilization. We need to quantify these risks, educate builders and make 3D printers as safe as possible, but TFA did give me a slight sense of alarmism.

tinus_hn 8y ago

You know these labels on cigarettes that state the smoke contains at least 253 toxic chemicals? The smoke from other plants of course contains at least about 200 of the same chemicals.

goldenkey 8y ago
People think the formaldehyde and all these other chemicals with spooky names were added by the bad cigarette companies..but not so!! Whenever any hydrocarbon is burned, a characteristic distribution of alkanes, alkenes, and alkynes is formed -- with the nastiest and most "radical" chemicals (like the alkynes), appearing with the lowest frequency. That's why smoking has almost no risk unless repeated. With enough exposure, those minimal alkynes add up. And they destroy DNA and wreak general havok due to their bond energy. I know I just reiterated your point. Thank you for making the point - smoke is what is a probabilistic distribution of energetic hydrocarbons -- not the plant!!
josefresco 8y ago
7,000 chemicals when smoked, 250 of which are harmful, about 70 of which are carcinogens. 599 additives.
tomatotomato37 8y ago
That's one of the things that amuses me about these new studies coming out showing smoking marijuana is healthier than nicotine. Yeah that may be so, but that doesn't mean you have to smoke it over like putting it in a tea or something

newnewpdro 8y ago

You should probably review the MSDS for the specific filament you're working with. The first one I looked up [1] contains 1,4-Dioxane [2]. In my experience any time you heat up plastic you're risking exposure to dangerous VOCs. It doesn't matter if most of the molecules were derived from corn. There are plenty of things labeled "non-toxic" which, when heated, produce toxic fumes. Pretty much every children's toy in existence is toxic to breathe when melted. [1] https://images.makerbot.com/support/production/SDS-000002ENA.pdf https://images.makerbot.com/support/production/SDS-000002ENA... [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1,4-Dioxane https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1,4-Dioxane

VLM 8y ago
It would seem there's an obvious startup opportunity for filaments that are sold based on cleanliness of product rather than the current marketplace of pigment and cost. It would seem trivial to distill out the dioxane to an unreasonably low impurity level. As with pharma, people may not like the cost of synthetic pure bespoke molecules, but some will sell.
08-15 8y ago
The linked MSDS says "dioxane-dione-dimethyl-polymer", which is better known as PLA. It contains dioxane in the same way table salt contains sodium.

deng 8y ago

Olive oil is non-toxic, yet if you heat it up too much, you'll get a good dose of acrolein. Just because something is non-toxic does not mean it stays that way if you heat it up.

ravenstine 8y ago
It depends on how much you heat it up, though. What people are expecting from 3D printers is enough heat to melt the filament but not too much so the filament releases fumes or burns. I'm not saying that's how it works in practice, but I think that's how people see it and why they're surprised.

phkahler 8y ago

>> So yes it would be surprising if that was found to be toxic. Tiny particulates are extremely bad for your lungs when inhaled and it doesn't matter much what they are made of. PLA is not "made of mostly corn" just because the material originates there. If you printed a corn-cob pipe with PLA it would still be plastic.