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It doesn’t take much brain cells to conclude Europe was supported at expense of rest of the planet. It’s failing in today’s economy for exactly the same reason.

It doesn’t take much brain cells to conclude Europe was supported at expense of rest of the planet. It’s failing in today’s economy for exactly the same reason. Globalization and current economic systems transfers wealth by merit instead of force. Many right wing conmen are reminiscing a past that will never be possible as there will never be colonies again

sgift 8y ago
EU GDP: 18.8 trillion -- India GDP: 2.5 trillion India has almost three times the population of the EU. If that is "failing" I think we can fail a bit more.
- negamax 8y ago
  Anyone can prop their GDP by borrowing and making their children under debt. Also, anyone can get rich by looting their neighbors. That's exactly what happened in colonial times. And former is underway. So not sure what you are on about?
  - asianthrowaway 8y ago
    How do you explain the fact that many European countries who had marginal or no colonial empires are among the richest countries in the world today? (Germany, Sweden, etc.)
    - negamax 8y ago
      That's easy. Concentration of looted wealth in a region and regional internal trade with barriers for external entities. Why do you think there are so many voices against WTO? It challenges the status quo built by force.
      - jernfrost 8y ago
        Most wealth in most European nations depends on local production and expertise. Why is e.g. the Norwegian fisherman richer than the Bangladeshi fisherman? It is not because he gets more money for each fish he sells. It is because the usage of modern fishing vessels and technology allows him to fish a lot more fish. In Norway we tried to give Bangladeshi fishermen modern Norwegian fishing vessels in the 70s. If failed because they do not have the skill and infrastructure to maintain and support a modern fishing fleet. Value lies in better both superior equipment and the knowledge of how to use it effectively. That advantage exists in Europe regardless of whether Europe gets to exploit other nations or not. Even in colonial times, most economic activity happened locally. Tobacco, sugar and spice does not grow the core of the economy. What mattered most was intensified farming locally. The usage inanimate power, labor specialization and cheaper transport to increase production of food, clothes, tools, furniture, housing etc. Even without actually exploiting the colonies Europeans would have benefited hugely from the maritime explorations. New crops such as potatoes benefited European agriculture greatly.
        negamax 8y ago
        Sure..
    - C1sc0cat 8y ago
      That's only because Germany lost in the race for Africa and also lost all its colonies post ww1
jernfrost 8y ago
Some people seem to somehow wish that us Europeans are furious that we don't have colonies anymore and that we are deeply nostalgic about it. Now I am not from a European country that had colonies, but I think it is pretty universal in Europe that, people are not missing the colonies. European are happy about where we are today. We are fighting less among each other than ever before. A continent of violence and become a continent of peace. Europe tops pretty much all worlds statistics on happiness, health, well-being and prosperity. I have no problems with the right wingers in Europe being angry about us not dominating the rest of the world. Let them be angry, it only brings me schadenfreude. Besides I don't think Europeans honestly care that much about it. I see American fretting much more about the position in the world. They are afraid of not being number ONE anymore. I think most of us Europeans have long accepted that reality. IMHO Europe's future is brighter than most other places. Global climate change will affect us much less than the rest. Unlike Asia, we don't have the same demographic time bomb. China, Korea and Japan will suffer major setbacks as their populations gray far too quickly. The middle east will be screwed when the world no longer runs on oil. I am hoping for a better future for Africa, but it will take a VERY long time for Africa to catch up with Europe. The US has a pretty bright future as well I think, but it will likely suffer a lot from political polarization and economic inequality and social problems. Yet the US has been through the same so much of its history. India will be a lot better off than today, but most Indians have a very long time to go to get anywhere near European levels of prosperity. That could take another 60-100 years.
- negamax 8y ago
  I am not against a prosperous Europe. Neither do I believe in living in the past. Simply stating the facts that Europe’s wealth is because of world looting. And it would be better that everyone understands where money comes from. Everyday that passes results in less exploitation I largely agree with what you said. But either of us don’t understand how large complex systems change There's this strange hint of Europe doing better than everyone else in your message. I assure you, that won't be the case.
  - asianthrowaway 8y ago
    > Simply stating the facts that Europe’s wealth is because of world looting I'd like to see some sources for those "facts". What exactly happened? Europeans came into Africa and Asia and stole all the factories, leaving Africans and Asians to revert back to agricultural societies?

sgift 8y ago

EU GDP: 18.8 trillion -- India GDP: 2.5 trillion India has almost three times the population of the EU. If that is "failing" I think we can fail a bit more.

negamax 8y ago
Anyone can prop their GDP by borrowing and making their children under debt. Also, anyone can get rich by looting their neighbors. That's exactly what happened in colonial times. And former is underway. So not sure what you are on about?
- asianthrowaway 8y ago
  How do you explain the fact that many European countries who had marginal or no colonial empires are among the richest countries in the world today? (Germany, Sweden, etc.)
  - negamax 8y ago
    That's easy. Concentration of looted wealth in a region and regional internal trade with barriers for external entities. Why do you think there are so many voices against WTO? It challenges the status quo built by force.
    - jernfrost 8y ago
      Most wealth in most European nations depends on local production and expertise. Why is e.g. the Norwegian fisherman richer than the Bangladeshi fisherman? It is not because he gets more money for each fish he sells. It is because the usage of modern fishing vessels and technology allows him to fish a lot more fish. In Norway we tried to give Bangladeshi fishermen modern Norwegian fishing vessels in the 70s. If failed because they do not have the skill and infrastructure to maintain and support a modern fishing fleet. Value lies in better both superior equipment and the knowledge of how to use it effectively. That advantage exists in Europe regardless of whether Europe gets to exploit other nations or not. Even in colonial times, most economic activity happened locally. Tobacco, sugar and spice does not grow the core of the economy. What mattered most was intensified farming locally. The usage inanimate power, labor specialization and cheaper transport to increase production of food, clothes, tools, furniture, housing etc. Even without actually exploiting the colonies Europeans would have benefited hugely from the maritime explorations. New crops such as potatoes benefited European agriculture greatly.
      - negamax 8y ago
        Sure..
  - C1sc0cat 8y ago
    That's only because Germany lost in the race for Africa and also lost all its colonies post ww1

jernfrost 8y ago

Some people seem to somehow wish that us Europeans are furious that we don't have colonies anymore and that we are deeply nostalgic about it. Now I am not from a European country that had colonies, but I think it is pretty universal in Europe that, people are not missing the colonies. European are happy about where we are today. We are fighting less among each other than ever before. A continent of violence and become a continent of peace. Europe tops pretty much all worlds statistics on happiness, health, well-being and prosperity. I have no problems with the right wingers in Europe being angry about us not dominating the rest of the world. Let them be angry, it only brings me schadenfreude. Besides I don't think Europeans honestly care that much about it. I see American fretting much more about the position in the world. They are afraid of not being number ONE anymore. I think most of us Europeans have long accepted that reality. IMHO Europe's future is brighter than most other places. Global climate change will affect us much less than the rest. Unlike Asia, we don't have the same demographic time bomb. China, Korea and Japan will suffer major setbacks as their populations gray far too quickly. The middle east will be screwed when the world no longer runs on oil. I am hoping for a better future for Africa, but it will take a VERY long time for Africa to catch up with Europe. The US has a pretty bright future as well I think, but it will likely suffer a lot from political polarization and economic inequality and social problems. Yet the US has been through the same so much of its history. India will be a lot better off than today, but most Indians have a very long time to go to get anywhere near European levels of prosperity. That could take another 60-100 years.

negamax 8y ago
I am not against a prosperous Europe. Neither do I believe in living in the past. Simply stating the facts that Europe’s wealth is because of world looting. And it would be better that everyone understands where money comes from. Everyday that passes results in less exploitation I largely agree with what you said. But either of us don’t understand how large complex systems change There's this strange hint of Europe doing better than everyone else in your message. I assure you, that won't be the case.
- asianthrowaway 8y ago
  > Simply stating the facts that Europe’s wealth is because of world looting I'd like to see some sources for those "facts". What exactly happened? Europeans came into Africa and Asia and stole all the factories, leaving Africans and Asians to revert back to agricultural societies?