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b) they're making really solid machines that last longer. The concern is their products are no longer lasting longer, they deny there are problems for long per

b) they're making really solid machines that last longer. The concern is their products are no longer lasting longer, they deny there are problems for long periods of time, and make it very hard to fix independently. The higher prices are worth it for quality, but they are cutting corners in places they shouldn’t for quality products.

stevenjohns 8y ago
In all honesty iOS 12 rolling out to the iPhone 5s - a five year old device - showed their commitment to that. It will be supported at least until iOS 13 which is next year, giving the device six years of software updates. And the iOS 12 update was actually quite good and breathed life into older phones. I don't think there was ever much concern about MacBooks not lasting long - they definitely hold up. The concerns lay with iPads and iPhones, and they're most certainly holding up now. This shift is actually the reason why I moved back to Apple after leaving the ecosystem back in 2011 or so.
- protomyth 8y ago
  The iPhone 6 is trouble plagued, and the MacBook had a keyboard the dies if it gets dusty. The iPhones after the 6 all had problems. Heck, the whole slow down the machine to preserve old batteries shows what a pain it is to replace the battery and an acknowledgement that batteries degrade. Never mind the repair cost for the various ports that went out on MacBooks.
  - stevenjohns 8y ago
    > The iPhone 6 is trouble plagued, and the MacBook had a keyboard the dies if it gets dusty Anecdotally, I bought my mom an iPhone 6 and she hasn't complained of any issues, and my 2016 15" MacBook Pro literally survived being trashed (in the form of dropping it, trying to crack it open, probably kicking it around, maybe even using it as a chopping board) by the Mossad. > The iPhones after the 6 all had problems I'm pretty happy with my iPhone X. I used an iPhone 8 Plus briefly before this and didn't have much trouble. Which issues do you mean? > Heck, the whole slow down the machine to preserve old batteries shows what a pain it is to replace the battery and an acknowledgement that batteries degrade That definitely was poor form on their part, but they've dropped the price of battery replacements (I think until the end of this year?) and now have a dedicated screen for battery health.
    - saagarjha 8y ago
      > my 2016 15" MacBook Pro literally survived being trashed (in the form of dropping it, trying to crack it open, probably kicking it around, maybe even using it as a chopping board) by the Mossad Wait, what?
      - stevenjohns 8y ago
        Being born in a "red flag" country and trying to travel to Israel on an El Al flight is an interesting affair.
  - achompas 8y ago
    I just put iOS 12 on a family member’s iPhone 6, a four year old model. It runs beautifully. Apple replaced the battery on it for $29, even though the phone did not need it (capacity was above 90% after 2 years of use - it was purchased before phase-out). More people should replace batteries - their phones would last longer at a cheaper annual cost. We already know modern iPhones have more than enough compute in them. “Planned obsolescence” is not a thing with iPhones.
    - protomyth 8y ago
      Apple replaced the battery on it for $29 I paid $159 twice, and then $79 because the third phone lost the ability to recognize touches (after the battery expanded). After a class action lawsuit was filed, they reduced the price to $29 for battery replacement. Apple didn't refund any portion of the money they got out of me. [edit: because I switched the amounts - dumb me]
      - achompas 8y ago
        I'm sorry, this must have been really disappointing to experience. Why did you pay $159 twice?
        protomyth 8y ago
        They stopped responding to touch input and Apple said I either paid it or could keep a broken phone. The third one they said was battery since it swelled to break the case and stopped input. This is the problem with buying Apple. They lie about problems until someone decides to sue but don’t refund anyone who paid already.
  - 2muchcoffeeman 8y ago
    > The iPhones after the 6 all had problems. I think you’re recalling your memories the wrong way. That is still my favourite iPhone.
    - protomyth 8y ago
      The iPhone 6 (and plus) had Touch Disease, battery issues, and bending issues. It was just not a great phone and cost me 2 $150 repairs and 1 $79 repair at the Apple store accounting for 3 of the 4 phones I bought. I am rather clear on my memories and doing searches for others on this phone.
  - rconti 8y ago
    > The iPhones after the 6 all had problems. Why do I get the feeling you're romanticizing pre-iPhone 6 iPhones in a way that you would not be if this was 2014?
    - protomyth 8y ago
      No, they had some problems (e.g. Antennaegate), but the iPhone 6 really had more than its share, and frankly, cost me the most money in repairs since I ended up paying for the repairs of 3 of 4 (family) before Apple acknowledged the problems and dropped the price of repairs. I noticed they didn't refund me any of my money.
millstone 8y ago
Apple has problems but "cutting corners" is not one of them. The butterfly keyboard is bad, and the problem is apparently that it is too delicate. There's no evidence this bad keyboard was created as a cost-saving measure. The mechanism is complex, and clearly expensive. If anything it was a mistake born of fetishizing thinness.
- dawnerd 8y ago
  And they’re fixing it for free even out of warranty. Good luck getting a pc laptop manufacturer to repair a 2016 model for four years for free.
  - simion314 8y ago
    After a class action lawsuit happened, before they denied the issue.
    - xhruso00 8y ago
      Sad practice of Apple PR. Deny issues the longest time possible.
      - simion314 8y ago
        More sad is the customer attitude that fall for it and now praise Apple for replace the keyboard or the phone batteries but don't mention that it just needed some class action lawsuit.
  - Schlaefer 8y ago
    They start those programs years into the product cycle (afaik the 2018 model isn't covered at the moment). They decide every time if it is a warranty case. They decide if other parts need replacement first and you have to pay for those. - Also you actually paid for that, because Apple doesn't loses money on Macs. It's priced in. For other manufactures you just buy the replacement part for 40 bucks on amazon, it comes to your house and you replace it yourself within ten minutes. I prefer that cheap, zero downtime solution even if I have to pay for it myself. It's nice that this warranty program exists, but it's a band aid, not a fix.
arbol 8y ago
I've just moved away from Mac book Pro for this very reason. The new keyboard is horrendous.

stevenjohns 8y ago

In all honesty iOS 12 rolling out to the iPhone 5s - a five year old device - showed their commitment to that. It will be supported at least until iOS 13 which is next year, giving the device six years of software updates. And the iOS 12 update was actually quite good and breathed life into older phones. I don't think there was ever much concern about MacBooks not lasting long - they definitely hold up. The concerns lay with iPads and iPhones, and they're most certainly holding up now. This shift is actually the reason why I moved back to Apple after leaving the ecosystem back in 2011 or so.

protomyth 8y ago
The iPhone 6 is trouble plagued, and the MacBook had a keyboard the dies if it gets dusty. The iPhones after the 6 all had problems. Heck, the whole slow down the machine to preserve old batteries shows what a pain it is to replace the battery and an acknowledgement that batteries degrade. Never mind the repair cost for the various ports that went out on MacBooks.
- stevenjohns 8y ago
  > The iPhone 6 is trouble plagued, and the MacBook had a keyboard the dies if it gets dusty Anecdotally, I bought my mom an iPhone 6 and she hasn't complained of any issues, and my 2016 15" MacBook Pro literally survived being trashed (in the form of dropping it, trying to crack it open, probably kicking it around, maybe even using it as a chopping board) by the Mossad. > The iPhones after the 6 all had problems I'm pretty happy with my iPhone X. I used an iPhone 8 Plus briefly before this and didn't have much trouble. Which issues do you mean? > Heck, the whole slow down the machine to preserve old batteries shows what a pain it is to replace the battery and an acknowledgement that batteries degrade That definitely was poor form on their part, but they've dropped the price of battery replacements (I think until the end of this year?) and now have a dedicated screen for battery health.
  - saagarjha 8y ago
    > my 2016 15" MacBook Pro literally survived being trashed (in the form of dropping it, trying to crack it open, probably kicking it around, maybe even using it as a chopping board) by the Mossad Wait, what?
    - stevenjohns 8y ago
      Being born in a "red flag" country and trying to travel to Israel on an El Al flight is an interesting affair.
- achompas 8y ago
  I just put iOS 12 on a family member’s iPhone 6, a four year old model. It runs beautifully. Apple replaced the battery on it for $29, even though the phone did not need it (capacity was above 90% after 2 years of use - it was purchased before phase-out). More people should replace batteries - their phones would last longer at a cheaper annual cost. We already know modern iPhones have more than enough compute in them. “Planned obsolescence” is not a thing with iPhones.
  - protomyth 8y ago
    Apple replaced the battery on it for $29 I paid $159 twice, and then $79 because the third phone lost the ability to recognize touches (after the battery expanded). After a class action lawsuit was filed, they reduced the price to $29 for battery replacement. Apple didn't refund any portion of the money they got out of me. [edit: because I switched the amounts - dumb me]
    - achompas 8y ago
      I'm sorry, this must have been really disappointing to experience. Why did you pay $159 twice?
      - protomyth 8y ago
        They stopped responding to touch input and Apple said I either paid it or could keep a broken phone. The third one they said was battery since it swelled to break the case and stopped input. This is the problem with buying Apple. They lie about problems until someone decides to sue but don’t refund anyone who paid already.
- 2muchcoffeeman 8y ago
  > The iPhones after the 6 all had problems. I think you’re recalling your memories the wrong way. That is still my favourite iPhone.
  - protomyth 8y ago
    The iPhone 6 (and plus) had Touch Disease, battery issues, and bending issues. It was just not a great phone and cost me 2 $150 repairs and 1 $79 repair at the Apple store accounting for 3 of the 4 phones I bought. I am rather clear on my memories and doing searches for others on this phone.
- rconti 8y ago
  > The iPhones after the 6 all had problems. Why do I get the feeling you're romanticizing pre-iPhone 6 iPhones in a way that you would not be if this was 2014?
  - protomyth 8y ago
    No, they had some problems (e.g. Antennaegate), but the iPhone 6 really had more than its share, and frankly, cost me the most money in repairs since I ended up paying for the repairs of 3 of 4 (family) before Apple acknowledged the problems and dropped the price of repairs. I noticed they didn't refund me any of my money.

millstone 8y ago

Apple has problems but "cutting corners" is not one of them. The butterfly keyboard is bad, and the problem is apparently that it is too delicate. There's no evidence this bad keyboard was created as a cost-saving measure. The mechanism is complex, and clearly expensive. If anything it was a mistake born of fetishizing thinness.

dawnerd 8y ago
And they’re fixing it for free even out of warranty. Good luck getting a pc laptop manufacturer to repair a 2016 model for four years for free.
- simion314 8y ago
  After a class action lawsuit happened, before they denied the issue.
  - xhruso00 8y ago
    Sad practice of Apple PR. Deny issues the longest time possible.
    - simion314 8y ago
      More sad is the customer attitude that fall for it and now praise Apple for replace the keyboard or the phone batteries but don't mention that it just needed some class action lawsuit.
- Schlaefer 8y ago
  They start those programs years into the product cycle (afaik the 2018 model isn't covered at the moment). They decide every time if it is a warranty case. They decide if other parts need replacement first and you have to pay for those. - Also you actually paid for that, because Apple doesn't loses money on Macs. It's priced in. For other manufactures you just buy the replacement part for 40 bucks on amazon, it comes to your house and you replace it yourself within ten minutes. I prefer that cheap, zero downtime solution even if I have to pay for it myself. It's nice that this warranty program exists, but it's a band aid, not a fix.

arbol 8y ago

I've just moved away from Mac book Pro for this very reason. The new keyboard is horrendous.