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Re : costs almost always are greater than the benefits Perhaps you can argue this on a case by case basis, but do you think this is still true if you have to t

Re : costs almost always are greater than the benefits Perhaps you can argue this on a case by case basis, but do you think this is still true if you have to take or leave all service at once? As evidence that the costs are worth the benefits I submit the fact that you (perhaps not you in particular but any citizen of a country who makes this claim) haven't renounced your citizenship for that of another, better cost-benefit ratio, country. Incidentally, I think that if many government functions were privatized you would be paying a (much) higher rate than you are now since you've already shown the willingness to pay the current rate. That combined with the fact that there rarely if ever is competition in large scale services like those the government provides. As evidence, take a look at any large scale private contractor industry like construction or defense/aerospace.

dpatru 16y ago
There's something offensive to me about the idea of renouncing citizenship to protect your own property. It's like abandoning your house and moving away to avoid burglaries. I have a right to my own labor and property. The thieves and robbers should be the ones to leave.
- secretasiandan 16y ago
  Does that mean you never have a similar experience doing business with private companies? I think booking a hotel room or flight can be a comparable experience if it goes poorly.
drcode 16y ago
> As evidence that the costs are worth the benefits I submit the fact that you haven't renounced your citizenship... That's actually a good argument. Though of course I'd incur huge expenses moving to another country than the one I was born in (new language, no contacts, maybe fewer legal rights, etc) so it only works up to a degree. > I think that if many government functions were privatized you would be paying a (much) higher rate than you are now since you've already shown the willingness to pay the current rate. That makes no sense... Are you saying I wouldn't buy an umbrella for $2.99 at Walmart because I bought an umbrella for $12.99 at a mom-and-pop store before Walmart came to town?
- secretasiandan 16y ago
  The huge expenses you incur for moving are part of what the private companies would extract from you. While the company may be able to "efficiently" provide you a service for for 1/10th the equivalent government price, they will charge you something like 95% of the "total cost" of you switching, whatever that may be. The issue is that you won't have 10 or 20 providers for roads, water, electricity, landlines. Anything where infrastructure costs are high or where its nearly impossible for two providers to have identical, commoditized services as with roads will not be competitive. For things like getting a passport, driver's license, etc you will have some competition, but there are plenty of private companies that provide crappy service as well. How many people who buy cheaper merchandise later think "what a piece of crap"?
zargon 16y ago
Incidentally, I think that if many government functions were privatized you would be paying a (much) higher rate than you are now since you've already shown the willingness to pay the current rate. If you don't pay your taxes, you'll get put in a cage or shot. That's not a "willing" payment.
mchouza 16y ago
As evidence that the costs are worth the benefits I submit the fact that you (perhaps not you in particular but any citizen of a country who makes this claim) haven't renounced your citizenship for that of another, better cost-benefit ratio, country. A country and its government are not the same thing. The cost-benefit balance can be made positive by benefits that are independent of government, such as cultural attitudes or proximity to specific private institutions.

dpatru 16y ago

There's something offensive to me about the idea of renouncing citizenship to protect your own property. It's like abandoning your house and moving away to avoid burglaries. I have a right to my own labor and property. The thieves and robbers should be the ones to leave.

secretasiandan 16y ago
Does that mean you never have a similar experience doing business with private companies? I think booking a hotel room or flight can be a comparable experience if it goes poorly.

drcode 16y ago

> As evidence that the costs are worth the benefits I submit the fact that you haven't renounced your citizenship... That's actually a good argument. Though of course I'd incur huge expenses moving to another country than the one I was born in (new language, no contacts, maybe fewer legal rights, etc) so it only works up to a degree. > I think that if many government functions were privatized you would be paying a (much) higher rate than you are now since you've already shown the willingness to pay the current rate. That makes no sense... Are you saying I wouldn't buy an umbrella for $2.99 at Walmart because I bought an umbrella for $12.99 at a mom-and-pop store before Walmart came to town?

secretasiandan 16y ago
The huge expenses you incur for moving are part of what the private companies would extract from you. While the company may be able to "efficiently" provide you a service for for 1/10th the equivalent government price, they will charge you something like 95% of the "total cost" of you switching, whatever that may be. The issue is that you won't have 10 or 20 providers for roads, water, electricity, landlines. Anything where infrastructure costs are high or where its nearly impossible for two providers to have identical, commoditized services as with roads will not be competitive. For things like getting a passport, driver's license, etc you will have some competition, but there are plenty of private companies that provide crappy service as well. How many people who buy cheaper merchandise later think "what a piece of crap"?

zargon 16y ago

Incidentally, I think that if many government functions were privatized you would be paying a (much) higher rate than you are now since you've already shown the willingness to pay the current rate. If you don't pay your taxes, you'll get put in a cage or shot. That's not a "willing" payment.

mchouza 16y ago

As evidence that the costs are worth the benefits I submit the fact that you (perhaps not you in particular but any citizen of a country who makes this claim) haven't renounced your citizenship for that of another, better cost-benefit ratio, country. A country and its government are not the same thing. The cost-benefit balance can be made positive by benefits that are independent of government, such as cultural attitudes or proximity to specific private institutions.