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I'm pretty sure the Japanese were aware of gunpowder ... esp. by 1861 ... by then they should have seen a musket too ... at this point we should remind ourselve

I'm pretty sure the Japanese were aware of gunpowder ... esp. by 1861 ... by then they should have seen a musket too ... at this point we should remind ourselves that this is a FICTIONAL account

Gibbon1 8y ago
The Dutch had a trading post in Japan during the Edo Period. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dejima https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dejima Before that they had regular trade with the Portuguese starting in the 16th century. The Japanese didn't have guns for the exact same reason Amish still use Kerosene lamps.
- dragontamer 8y ago
  Didn't Oda Nobunaga in the 16th century almost take over the whole country because he used Guns? (And economics... and better training... and...) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oda_Nobunaga https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oda_Nobunaga https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Firearms_of_Japan https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Firearms_of_Japan I mean, the Japaneses learned of guns later than Europeans. But "later than Europeans" means using guns in the 16th century. The 19th century (1860s) when this Japanese print was made is dated hundreds of years after Oda Nobunaga proved the efficacy of gunpowder on the Japanese Battlefield.
  - Gibbon1 8y ago
    Yes exactly, and the Japanese weren't that far behind the Europeans until circa 1800 or later. A lot of firearm technology we take for granted wasn't common/practical until the US Civil war era. AKA breach loading artillery and rifles, cylindrical shells, brass riffle cartridges, etc.
dragontamer 8y ago
Oda Nobunaga probably wasn't the first user of guns in Japan... but he was one of the most popular advocates of guns. Oda Nobunaga mass-produced gunpowder and muskets during the Warring States period. All this happened in the 1500s / 16th century. Japan not only "knew about guns", but knew about their efficacy in combat after Oda Nobunaga. Yes, this was later than Europe, but we're still talking about a span of hundreds of years here. With that being said, Japan learned of RIFLES like 50+ years after the Americans proved their usefulness in the American Revolution. The 1800s took huge steps forward with regards to war machines. Yes, gunpowder muskets existed, but Americans began to use Rifles. Rifles means sharpshooters and snipers. They were quite bad during the American Revolution (It takes well over a minute to load a 1700s style rifle, and there's still a high-chance of misfiring...), but by the American Civil War, sharpshooters were commonplace. Once the Minie Ball allowed for faster reloading, advances in metallurgy allowed more precise mass-production, and more precise rifle-barrels lowered the chance of misfires down... well... the rest is history. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mini%C3%A9_rifle https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mini%C3%A9_rifle This Japanese Print would have been written in a time where Muskets were commonplace (but very quickly falling obsolete), with Rifle and sharpshooter-based combat beginning to take a role in the battlefield... and a legend of "Full Iron Ships" that are fully immune to cannons that people probably didn't fully believe in yet.

I'm pretty sure the Japanese were aware of gunpowder ... esp. by 1861 ... by then they should have seen a musket too ... at this point we should remind ourselves that this is a FICTIONAL account

Gibbon1 8y ago

The Dutch had a trading post in Japan during the Edo Period. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dejima https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dejima Before that they had regular trade with the Portuguese starting in the 16th century. The Japanese didn't have guns for the exact same reason Amish still use Kerosene lamps.

dragontamer 8y ago
Didn't Oda Nobunaga in the 16th century almost take over the whole country because he used Guns? (And economics... and better training... and...) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oda_Nobunaga https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oda_Nobunaga https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Firearms_of_Japan https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Firearms_of_Japan I mean, the Japaneses learned of guns later than Europeans. But "later than Europeans" means using guns in the 16th century. The 19th century (1860s) when this Japanese print was made is dated hundreds of years after Oda Nobunaga proved the efficacy of gunpowder on the Japanese Battlefield.
- Gibbon1 8y ago
  Yes exactly, and the Japanese weren't that far behind the Europeans until circa 1800 or later. A lot of firearm technology we take for granted wasn't common/practical until the US Civil war era. AKA breach loading artillery and rifles, cylindrical shells, brass riffle cartridges, etc.

dragontamer 8y ago

Oda Nobunaga probably wasn't the first user of guns in Japan... but he was one of the most popular advocates of guns. Oda Nobunaga mass-produced gunpowder and muskets during the Warring States period. All this happened in the 1500s / 16th century. Japan not only "knew about guns", but knew about their efficacy in combat after Oda Nobunaga. Yes, this was later than Europe, but we're still talking about a span of hundreds of years here. With that being said, Japan learned of RIFLES like 50+ years after the Americans proved their usefulness in the American Revolution. The 1800s took huge steps forward with regards to war machines. Yes, gunpowder muskets existed, but Americans began to use Rifles. Rifles means sharpshooters and snipers. They were quite bad during the American Revolution (It takes well over a minute to load a 1700s style rifle, and there's still a high-chance of misfiring...), but by the American Civil War, sharpshooters were commonplace. Once the Minie Ball allowed for faster reloading, advances in metallurgy allowed more precise mass-production, and more precise rifle-barrels lowered the chance of misfires down... well... the rest is history. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mini%C3%A9_rifle https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mini%C3%A9_rifle This Japanese Print would have been written in a time where Muskets were commonplace (but very quickly falling obsolete), with Rifle and sharpshooter-based combat beginning to take a role in the battlefield... and a legend of "Full Iron Ships" that are fully immune to cannons that people probably didn't fully believe in yet.