6 ms·

personally I find all these dating sites to be completely useless for guys...too much competition. when you hit on a girl in the real world...at worst, you are

by vaksel 16y ago

personally I find all these dating sites to be completely useless for guys...too much competition. when you hit on a girl in the real world...at worst, you are competing with the 10-15 other guys who've had the guts to talk to her in the past week. with online, you are competing with pretty much every guy within 100-150 miles...and since most play the numbers game...you are just one of the hundreds who've messaged her.

maxawaytoolong 16y ago
You are doing it wrong. The way to do it is to let them come to you. I've never initiated any conversation on OKCupid and I've been on dates with about 50 women from that site. They have always contacted me first. In mid september of this year I had 15 different women contact me in one week, resulting in 10 dates, which was the record. The key is to just have a few decent photos and be funny. It's very surprising how most people can't even be bothered to get a decent photo of themselves, or figure out anything clever to say in their profile. Also, NYC has proven to be 5 times better than SF in terms of both quantity and quality. More dates and cool women with interesting jobs, etc. SF women are generally easier and put out on the first date, but are also much crazier. If at all possible, don't let them know your phone number. Make sure you can easily get a prescription for antibiotics.
- keefe 16y ago
  I think you're both doing it wrong. Women tend to approach men less than the reverse, I presume that if you approached more then you'd end up with higher values in the qualities you care about. It's also only important to note you are not just "competing" with the other guys she saw this week, but the whole online/offline pool of available males attractive females invariably have. It's about leveraging the speed of the internet to find another human being that is ACTUALLY a good match, so one would expect to beat out other people to get to a 1 in 100 match. > SF women are generally easier and put out on the first date, but are also much crazier... wow at this whole set of sentences... I rarely care but this kind of misogynistic, antiquated nonsense is mildly offensive even to me. I personally try not to treat other human beings like disposable hump dolls and look for some kind of a real connection, but maybe I'm just some kind of crazy hippie. To avoid the apparent but incorrect inference, I am not into monogamy now either.
  - maxawaytoolong 16y ago
    I wasn't the one looking for the "disposable hump doll." I've never even initiated a contact. The women who contacted me were just looking for sex. This happened far more often in SF. In NYC some are looking for that, but more seem to be actually looking for a husband, or a long term boyfriend. I put the crazy and antibiotics lines in there because I really did get the clap, and really did have to change my phone number.
    - keefe 16y ago
      the point was that describing women in the manner of the last 3 sentences signals such a world view. Also, there's nothing wrong with casual sex, it's pretty awesome... so like, you had these bad experiences after just letting the stereotypically passive sex chase you, maybe use a bit more selection and go after the really interesting ones and you'll have better experience I mean if you put yourself in list for casual sex then yeah, you need to be super careful about the people that contact you because typically attractive sexually liberated females get enough attention they don't have to pursue males
  - tieTYT 16y ago
    > Women tend to approach men less than the reverse Yeah, that's true. I've talked to girls on the site that didn't even know it had a search. How do they think they get all those messages? It's bizarre.
- mithaler 16y ago
  I agree that it's better when women send first messages. This dating site startup is trying to take advantage of that by not allowing men to send initial messages: http://www.herway.com http://www.herway.com
  - mxavier 16y ago
    I wonder how this dynamic plays out for homosexual relationships.
- FooBarWidget 16y ago
  I think that only works if your looks are above average. I once used a photo of an actor on my profile just to see the effect. That raised quite some responses without me doing anything. Then I replaced my photo with a real one (my best one back then) and the number of responses instantly dropped tenfold.
  - maxawaytoolong 16y ago
    I don't think I'm ugly but not particularly attractive, either. However, your post is interesting because I apparently do look very similar to a certain B-list celebrity. That is what most women open with. "Has anyone ever told you that you look exactly like X..."
    - aaronbrethorst 16y ago
      I really hope they don't end that sentence with "Steve Buscemi." Also, my understanding is that using two condoms increases risk of breakage.
- Robin_Message 16y ago
  If by > put out on the first date [...] Make sure you can easily get a prescription for antibiotics. you mean "don't bother practising safe sex", then are you nuts or am I missing something? Some STIs are for life and antibiotics aren't gonna cut it.
  - maxawaytoolong 16y ago
    Yeah. Paradoxically, I've found if someone makes a point to say they are clean and not to worry about it that's the most important time to wrap it up, maybe twice. I'm sure there's at least one rap lyric about this.
    - swolchok 16y ago
      Despite the possibility of getting trolled: using two condoms increases the risk of failure vs. using one. Don't do it.
HeyLaughingBoy 16y ago
Think of it as business: improve your marketing. There are many women who ignore anyone who messages them because they want to be in control of the situation. Therefore they troll the male listings and respond to the ones they like. I used to take both approaches, but met more women when they came to me rather than the other way around. Make sure you have a great profile and a nice picture. SMILE!! LOOK HAPPY!!!
- FooBarWidget 16y ago
  Are you sure about smiling? Read myth #1 at http://blog.okcupid.com/index.php/the-4-big-myths-of-profile-pictures/ http://blog.okcupid.com/index.php/the-4-big-myths-of-profile... Of course one will have more success if women come to them, but I think it only works if you have the natural looks to pull it off. Some people, even when they're not ugly, don't have the looks required to entice women to message them no matter how they dress, pose, or how much they go to the gym.
  - HeyLaughingBoy 16y ago
    I think the take home message is that most guys' profiles set the bar pretty low. It doesn't take much to rise above the noise floor: by simply attempting to be personable and have a decent photo you're well ahead of the game. Sounds obvious, but I used to check out men's ads just to see what I was up against, and I was definitely not impressed!
zackattack 16y ago
this is an excellent comment because it makes me wonder: how often do women really get approached?
orenmazor 16y ago
protip: look at some guy profiles. it'll immediately teach you how to stand out from the pack.
teach 16y ago
There are substantially more women than men on eHarmony. The paywall really keeps out the riff-raff.
- dkarl 16y ago
  I think the premise (looking for marriage) puts a lot of guys off. Even though marriage is exactly what I'm looking for, I steer clear of eHarmony because I'm afraid of what kind of women it might attract. I have a friend who got married to a woman he met on eHarmony, and he seems happy. Still, I have this horrible fear of meeting a woman who has marriage tunnel vision and through sheer determination makes it work somehow even though it shouldn't. I know it's a stereotype of the marriage-obsessed woman, but my only concrete model for this fear is a woman I know whose husband feigned a lot of interests and personal characteristics that he dropped within a month of getting married, not to mention that he suddenly started nagging her to change a bunch of things about herself that he never seemed to mind before. So it's a fear I would expect women to have, too. It surprises me that anyone is on eHarmony at all!
  - teach 16y ago
    I do understand that pressure to "make it work". But it totally wasn't there for either my wife or I. I was matched with over 300 women during the 3 months that I was enrolled, and my (now) wife was in grad school finishing her dissertation. She wasn't in any hurry to settle down, and I was eager to cross off women that weren't perfectly (truly) suitable so I could move to the next one on the list!
dkarl 16y ago
Women have to play a numbers game, too. If they go for the same guys the other girls go for, they won't get time with the guy, or they'll get time with a guy who is dating a bunch of other women. Women figure this out pretty quickly. Your model of how women behave would result in a lot of frustration for them unless they're happy being some generic stud's Tuesday night girl. Hence, if you're looking for an intelligent woman who wants a monogamous relationship, she'll be looking for a good individual match with a guy who has time for her, and she'll be looking for ways around the numbers problem. That means playing up what makes you different, and being good at targeting yourself to the right women. I'm not a catch by any means, but I had a pretty good response rate on Match.com, to the point where I worried that I wasn't casting a wide enough net. I think one of the reasons I've been successful is that I'm very honest and try to communicate as much of my personality as possible through my ad, even the aspects of my personality that aren't universally liked. That's how you hook into women's individual taste and how you help them solve the numbers problem. (That's not the same as putting your worst foot forward; I don't advertise things about myself that nobody would like.)
strlen 16y ago
> you are just one of the hundreds who've messaged her. Actually, I found it to be completely the opposite. Most of the guys messaging the girls either (sorted by frequency): 1) Send a picture of their privates 2) Send something incoherent e.g., "GURL UR SO HOT" 3) Send a long, creepy essay 4) Have zero compatibility with her, haven't read her profile (past the picture), etc... and are sending something generic. So if you actually read their profile and send intelligent messages selectively, you'll get responses.
- steveklabnik 16y ago
  Having talked to quite a few girls with OKC accounts, and having seen their inboxes, this is surprisingly true. I didn't believe it until I saw it, but this is pretty much all of the major archetypes.
- jamesteow 16y ago
  "So if you actually read their profile and send intelligent messages selectively, you'll get responses." In a dream world. I've done that on OKC and have gotten zero responses.
  - strlen 16y ago
    Have you considered that it's your problem, not the site's? Worked very well for me.
    - jamesteow 16y ago
      Yeah, you're right, it is about me. But what do you want me to say? That it works for everyone? A lot of my good friends are photographers so most of my portraits are taken from them. Thus, I think my photos are well executed compared to self portraits taken via mirrors/cellphones. My profile is pretty genuine. I don't aim to be pretentious or egotistical. When I contact people, I usually start up with something that's related to their profile or something that's in common as to help talk about something interesting. Thus, no disrespectful pick-up lines or gratuitous photos. Contacted about... 21 people over six months (people of different levels of attractiveness)? Received like... 1 reply. So, congratulations on the site working very well for you. Really. But, not everyone has such fortunate results despite doing things that are civil and respectful. So when people say, "so if you actually read their profile and send intelligent messages selectively, you'll get responses" well I can say it doesn't always work.

by vaksel 16y ago

maxawaytoolong 16y ago

You are doing it wrong. The way to do it is to let them come to you. I've never initiated any conversation on OKCupid and I've been on dates with about 50 women from that site. They have always contacted me first. In mid september of this year I had 15 different women contact me in one week, resulting in 10 dates, which was the record. The key is to just have a few decent photos and be funny. It's very surprising how most people can't even be bothered to get a decent photo of themselves, or figure out anything clever to say in their profile. Also, NYC has proven to be 5 times better than SF in terms of both quantity and quality. More dates and cool women with interesting jobs, etc. SF women are generally easier and put out on the first date, but are also much crazier. If at all possible, don't let them know your phone number. Make sure you can easily get a prescription for antibiotics.

keefe 16y ago
I think you're both doing it wrong. Women tend to approach men less than the reverse, I presume that if you approached more then you'd end up with higher values in the qualities you care about. It's also only important to note you are not just "competing" with the other guys she saw this week, but the whole online/offline pool of available males attractive females invariably have. It's about leveraging the speed of the internet to find another human being that is ACTUALLY a good match, so one would expect to beat out other people to get to a 1 in 100 match. > SF women are generally easier and put out on the first date, but are also much crazier... wow at this whole set of sentences... I rarely care but this kind of misogynistic, antiquated nonsense is mildly offensive even to me. I personally try not to treat other human beings like disposable hump dolls and look for some kind of a real connection, but maybe I'm just some kind of crazy hippie. To avoid the apparent but incorrect inference, I am not into monogamy now either.
- maxawaytoolong 16y ago
  I wasn't the one looking for the "disposable hump doll." I've never even initiated a contact. The women who contacted me were just looking for sex. This happened far more often in SF. In NYC some are looking for that, but more seem to be actually looking for a husband, or a long term boyfriend. I put the crazy and antibiotics lines in there because I really did get the clap, and really did have to change my phone number.
  - keefe 16y ago
    the point was that describing women in the manner of the last 3 sentences signals such a world view. Also, there's nothing wrong with casual sex, it's pretty awesome... so like, you had these bad experiences after just letting the stereotypically passive sex chase you, maybe use a bit more selection and go after the really interesting ones and you'll have better experience I mean if you put yourself in list for casual sex then yeah, you need to be super careful about the people that contact you because typically attractive sexually liberated females get enough attention they don't have to pursue males
- tieTYT 16y ago
  > Women tend to approach men less than the reverse Yeah, that's true. I've talked to girls on the site that didn't even know it had a search. How do they think they get all those messages? It's bizarre.
mithaler 16y ago
I agree that it's better when women send first messages. This dating site startup is trying to take advantage of that by not allowing men to send initial messages: http://www.herway.com http://www.herway.com
- mxavier 16y ago
  I wonder how this dynamic plays out for homosexual relationships.
FooBarWidget 16y ago
I think that only works if your looks are above average. I once used a photo of an actor on my profile just to see the effect. That raised quite some responses without me doing anything. Then I replaced my photo with a real one (my best one back then) and the number of responses instantly dropped tenfold.
- maxawaytoolong 16y ago
  I don't think I'm ugly but not particularly attractive, either. However, your post is interesting because I apparently do look very similar to a certain B-list celebrity. That is what most women open with. "Has anyone ever told you that you look exactly like X..."
  - aaronbrethorst 16y ago
    I really hope they don't end that sentence with "Steve Buscemi." Also, my understanding is that using two condoms increases risk of breakage.
Robin_Message 16y ago
If by > put out on the first date [...] Make sure you can easily get a prescription for antibiotics. you mean "don't bother practising safe sex", then are you nuts or am I missing something? Some STIs are for life and antibiotics aren't gonna cut it.
- maxawaytoolong 16y ago
  Yeah. Paradoxically, I've found if someone makes a point to say they are clean and not to worry about it that's the most important time to wrap it up, maybe twice. I'm sure there's at least one rap lyric about this.
  - swolchok 16y ago
    Despite the possibility of getting trolled: using two condoms increases the risk of failure vs. using one. Don't do it.

HeyLaughingBoy 16y ago

Think of it as business: improve your marketing. There are many women who ignore anyone who messages them because they want to be in control of the situation. Therefore they troll the male listings and respond to the ones they like. I used to take both approaches, but met more women when they came to me rather than the other way around. Make sure you have a great profile and a nice picture. SMILE!! LOOK HAPPY!!!

FooBarWidget 16y ago
Are you sure about smiling? Read myth #1 at http://blog.okcupid.com/index.php/the-4-big-myths-of-profile-pictures/ http://blog.okcupid.com/index.php/the-4-big-myths-of-profile... Of course one will have more success if women come to them, but I think it only works if you have the natural looks to pull it off. Some people, even when they're not ugly, don't have the looks required to entice women to message them no matter how they dress, pose, or how much they go to the gym.
- HeyLaughingBoy 16y ago
  I think the take home message is that most guys' profiles set the bar pretty low. It doesn't take much to rise above the noise floor: by simply attempting to be personable and have a decent photo you're well ahead of the game. Sounds obvious, but I used to check out men's ads just to see what I was up against, and I was definitely not impressed!

zackattack 16y ago

this is an excellent comment because it makes me wonder: how often do women really get approached?

orenmazor 16y ago

protip: look at some guy profiles. it'll immediately teach you how to stand out from the pack.

teach 16y ago

There are substantially more women than men on eHarmony. The paywall really keeps out the riff-raff.

dkarl 16y ago
I think the premise (looking for marriage) puts a lot of guys off. Even though marriage is exactly what I'm looking for, I steer clear of eHarmony because I'm afraid of what kind of women it might attract. I have a friend who got married to a woman he met on eHarmony, and he seems happy. Still, I have this horrible fear of meeting a woman who has marriage tunnel vision and through sheer determination makes it work somehow even though it shouldn't. I know it's a stereotype of the marriage-obsessed woman, but my only concrete model for this fear is a woman I know whose husband feigned a lot of interests and personal characteristics that he dropped within a month of getting married, not to mention that he suddenly started nagging her to change a bunch of things about herself that he never seemed to mind before. So it's a fear I would expect women to have, too. It surprises me that anyone is on eHarmony at all!
- teach 16y ago
  I do understand that pressure to "make it work". But it totally wasn't there for either my wife or I. I was matched with over 300 women during the 3 months that I was enrolled, and my (now) wife was in grad school finishing her dissertation. She wasn't in any hurry to settle down, and I was eager to cross off women that weren't perfectly (truly) suitable so I could move to the next one on the list!

dkarl 16y ago

Women have to play a numbers game, too. If they go for the same guys the other girls go for, they won't get time with the guy, or they'll get time with a guy who is dating a bunch of other women. Women figure this out pretty quickly. Your model of how women behave would result in a lot of frustration for them unless they're happy being some generic stud's Tuesday night girl. Hence, if you're looking for an intelligent woman who wants a monogamous relationship, she'll be looking for a good individual match with a guy who has time for her, and she'll be looking for ways around the numbers problem. That means playing up what makes you different, and being good at targeting yourself to the right women. I'm not a catch by any means, but I had a pretty good response rate on Match.com, to the point where I worried that I wasn't casting a wide enough net. I think one of the reasons I've been successful is that I'm very honest and try to communicate as much of my personality as possible through my ad, even the aspects of my personality that aren't universally liked. That's how you hook into women's individual taste and how you help them solve the numbers problem. (That's not the same as putting your worst foot forward; I don't advertise things about myself that nobody would like.)

strlen 16y ago

> you are just one of the hundreds who've messaged her. Actually, I found it to be completely the opposite. Most of the guys messaging the girls either (sorted by frequency): 1) Send a picture of their privates 2) Send something incoherent e.g., "GURL UR SO HOT" 3) Send a long, creepy essay 4) Have zero compatibility with her, haven't read her profile (past the picture), etc... and are sending something generic. So if you actually read their profile and send intelligent messages selectively, you'll get responses.

steveklabnik 16y ago
Having talked to quite a few girls with OKC accounts, and having seen their inboxes, this is surprisingly true. I didn't believe it until I saw it, but this is pretty much all of the major archetypes.
jamesteow 16y ago
"So if you actually read their profile and send intelligent messages selectively, you'll get responses." In a dream world. I've done that on OKC and have gotten zero responses.
- strlen 16y ago
  Have you considered that it's your problem, not the site's? Worked very well for me.
  - jamesteow 16y ago
    Yeah, you're right, it is about me. But what do you want me to say? That it works for everyone? A lot of my good friends are photographers so most of my portraits are taken from them. Thus, I think my photos are well executed compared to self portraits taken via mirrors/cellphones. My profile is pretty genuine. I don't aim to be pretentious or egotistical. When I contact people, I usually start up with something that's related to their profile or something that's in common as to help talk about something interesting. Thus, no disrespectful pick-up lines or gratuitous photos. Contacted about... 21 people over six months (people of different levels of attractiveness)? Received like... 1 reply. So, congratulations on the site working very well for you. Really. But, not everyone has such fortunate results despite doing things that are civil and respectful. So when people say, "so if you actually read their profile and send intelligent messages selectively, you'll get responses" well I can say it doesn't always work.