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You would need stronger unions to fix this. China does not allow real unions and US has weird union laws that make their relationship with companies confrontati

You would need stronger unions to fix this. China does not allow real unions and US has weird union laws that make their relationship with companies confrontational (really: Unions in Europe and US are very different).

ghostly_s 8y ago
Any readings on how European unions work?
- harrumph 8y ago
  >Any readings on how European unions work? To me, the major and defining difference between US vs. European management/labor relationships is found in Germany's principle of co-determination. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Co-determination https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Co-determination Under these rules, the boards of directors of companies in Germany are required to include a significant portion of their voting membership to be drawn from worker population. As such, governorship of the company is at least partially beholden to the input of the persons who create all its value. This is starkly contrasted by US capitalism, where the workers who create all the company's value have effectively no say (apart from collective bargaining and strike) in any directions the company takes. The idea of workers voting on the board is laughable in the states. Co-determination was enshrined right after WWII, in part because the Germans looked around at the industrialized barbarism of the Third Reich and asked themselves "how can we prevent this from ever happening again"? The answer they came up with, in more ways than just co-determination, was to pointedly not hand the country's capitalists everything they wanted. They decided to place serious checks upon the power of capitalists. It's important to never forget that once in power, the Third Reich's first act was to round up, imprison and murder labor union leadership, socialists and communists. Co-determination is one way to remember.
- Nokinside 8y ago
  The US has enterprise-level or workplace level bargaining. Most European countries have sector-level bargaining. In the US workplaces are divided into unionized and non-unionized. Unionized firm is in competitive disadvantage against non-unionized firms. This results a situation where firms fight against unionization very aggressively and unions respond in same. It's very confrontational and aggressive. In Europe firms with more union members are not in competitive disadvantage relative to firms with fewer union members, because negotiations happen sector level. For example restaurant workers union(s) meet restaurant business representatives and they make industry-wide agreements.
Diederich 8y ago
> really: Unions in Europe and US are very different I've heard this before and seen a few specifics. If it's not too much trouble, could you summarize the differences? Thanks!
- simion314 8y ago
  I am not OP, I do not have links to facts but I can give you some examples from people I know, there may be other industries companies with worse conditions. - working extra hours is paid double and this hours are limited - you are forced to take you vacation days off, you can't chose the money and work the full year - your work place provides you food or you get "food tickets" that you can use in stores to buy only food. - if you have to work on national holly-day you will get paid double - you are not forced to be a member of any union
  - whatshisface 8y ago
    >your work place provides you food or you get "food tickets" that you can use in stores to buy only food. That doesn't make sense to me, different people have dietary preferences of different levels of expense. What's the reasoning behind this?
    - simion314 8y ago
      I think you would like the places that offer you food tickets, this means on top of your pay you get extra tokens to buy food. Some places(not as often) have special places where you can sit and eat cooked food. I think this is good so the workers won't skip on food, it is also a negotiation thing, when I see offers I see that you get paid X amount + food tickets.
- Nokinside 8y ago
  The US has enterprise-level or workplace level bargaining. Most European countries have sector-level bargaining. In the US workplaces are divided into unionized and non-unionized. Unionized firm is in competitive disadvantage against non-unionized firms. This results a situation where firms fight against unionization very aggressively and unions respond in same. It's very confrontational and aggressive. In Europe firms with more union members are not in competitive disadvantage relative to firms with fewer union members, because negotiations happen sector level. For example restaurant workers union(s) meet restaurant business representatives and they make industry-wide agreements.

ghostly_s 8y ago

Any readings on how European unions work?

harrumph 8y ago
>Any readings on how European unions work? To me, the major and defining difference between US vs. European management/labor relationships is found in Germany's principle of co-determination. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Co-determination https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Co-determination Under these rules, the boards of directors of companies in Germany are required to include a significant portion of their voting membership to be drawn from worker population. As such, governorship of the company is at least partially beholden to the input of the persons who create all its value. This is starkly contrasted by US capitalism, where the workers who create all the company's value have effectively no say (apart from collective bargaining and strike) in any directions the company takes. The idea of workers voting on the board is laughable in the states. Co-determination was enshrined right after WWII, in part because the Germans looked around at the industrialized barbarism of the Third Reich and asked themselves "how can we prevent this from ever happening again"? The answer they came up with, in more ways than just co-determination, was to pointedly not hand the country's capitalists everything they wanted. They decided to place serious checks upon the power of capitalists. It's important to never forget that once in power, the Third Reich's first act was to round up, imprison and murder labor union leadership, socialists and communists. Co-determination is one way to remember.
Nokinside 8y ago
The US has enterprise-level or workplace level bargaining. Most European countries have sector-level bargaining. In the US workplaces are divided into unionized and non-unionized. Unionized firm is in competitive disadvantage against non-unionized firms. This results a situation where firms fight against unionization very aggressively and unions respond in same. It's very confrontational and aggressive. In Europe firms with more union members are not in competitive disadvantage relative to firms with fewer union members, because negotiations happen sector level. For example restaurant workers union(s) meet restaurant business representatives and they make industry-wide agreements.

Diederich 8y ago

> really: Unions in Europe and US are very different I've heard this before and seen a few specifics. If it's not too much trouble, could you summarize the differences? Thanks!

simion314 8y ago
I am not OP, I do not have links to facts but I can give you some examples from people I know, there may be other industries companies with worse conditions. - working extra hours is paid double and this hours are limited - you are forced to take you vacation days off, you can't chose the money and work the full year - your work place provides you food or you get "food tickets" that you can use in stores to buy only food. - if you have to work on national holly-day you will get paid double - you are not forced to be a member of any union
- whatshisface 8y ago
  >your work place provides you food or you get "food tickets" that you can use in stores to buy only food. That doesn't make sense to me, different people have dietary preferences of different levels of expense. What's the reasoning behind this?
  - simion314 8y ago
    I think you would like the places that offer you food tickets, this means on top of your pay you get extra tokens to buy food. Some places(not as often) have special places where you can sit and eat cooked food. I think this is good so the workers won't skip on food, it is also a negotiation thing, when I see offers I see that you get paid X amount + food tickets.
Nokinside 8y ago
The US has enterprise-level or workplace level bargaining. Most European countries have sector-level bargaining. In the US workplaces are divided into unionized and non-unionized. Unionized firm is in competitive disadvantage against non-unionized firms. This results a situation where firms fight against unionization very aggressively and unions respond in same. It's very confrontational and aggressive. In Europe firms with more union members are not in competitive disadvantage relative to firms with fewer union members, because negotiations happen sector level. For example restaurant workers union(s) meet restaurant business representatives and they make industry-wide agreements.