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I doubt doing farmwork 12 hours a day is worse than doing the same mundane repetitive action 16 hours a day.

Aunche 8y ago
You're correct that farming is likely better than factory work. It might even be more rewarding writing code 9-5. The problem with subsistence farming is that you might starve to death if a drought, flood, or disease kills half your crops.
- asdff 8y ago
  And in the modern U.S., the very same can happen to the working poor if they loose their job, or an unforeseen expense comes up to make paying for life's necessities suddenly impossible. Perhaps even at the same rate that a natural famine once every decade or so has killed off the poor; last season at least 80,000 people died in the U.S. from the flu [1], a disease that disproportionately affects the working poor and homeless due to poorer overall health. Not much has changed for the poor in this modern world even if they aren't subsistence farmers. [1] https://www.cnn.com/2018/09/26/health/flu-deaths-2017--2018-cdc-bn/index.html https://www.cnn.com/2018/09/26/health/flu-deaths-2017--2018-...
  - umanwizard 8y ago
    You were responding to a comment about starving to death with some info about flu deaths... Starving to death is indeed very, very rare in the United States.
    - asdff 8y ago
      But evidently flu deaths are not so rare. Just as starving to death is a consequence of economics for the farmer, dying of the flu is a consequence of economics for the poor in the United States. One cannot pay for food during a famine, and the other cannot pay for health services during the yearly epidemic.
      - umanwizard 8y ago
        What is your point exactly? That industrialized civilization isn’t actually better than abject rural poverty, because a tiny minority of people still die of poverty-related causes? How do the numbers stack up on each side? 80,000 people is less than 1 in 3750 Americans — I’ll take my chances with those odds over living somewhere with regular famines.
TylerE 8y ago
Working in a modern factory and living in a dorm vs living in a rice paddy with no power, no running water, no transportation other than walking.
twblalock 8y ago
> I doubt doing farmwork 12 hours a day is worse than doing the same mundane repetitive action 16 hours a day. Then why do Chinese farmers line up outside the gates of factories hundreds of miles from home in the hope of getting a job? If farming gave them an equivalent or better quality of life, they would just stay at home and keep farming.
- asdff 8y ago
  Because their cousin is sick. Because they want their daughter to go to school in the city and move up the socioeconomic ladder. Because their parents are injured and can no longer work. These jobs require sacrificing all of your personal freedom to support others. They require enduring human rights abuses themselves to so others don't have to work this very job. The reasons why farmers are leaving their fields isn't for their personal well being at all, it is altruism. The intensity of farm work isn't even comparable. You aren't toiling in the fields doing the same exact thing for hours every day, every month, every year like you do in a factory. Most labor happens during harvest and planting seasons, maintenance labor throughout the year is focused on improving your living conditions or other local projects, something you can't do if you are working for the factory. Unfortunately, things come up that can only be fixed with immediate or continued access to capital, so you have to send one of your family members hundreds of miles away to work in a factory to fuel an emergency fund. The problem with farm work isn't the work, it's the lack of enough pay to deal with disaster.
- reaperducer 8y ago
  Then why do Chinese farmers line up outside the gates of factories hundreds of miles from home in the hope of getting a job? Because they've been forced to relocate from their farms to manufactured cities by the government which then bulldozed their villages. Then once they're in the city, their choice is to work in the greenhouses of a big government-backed company, or work in the factory of a big government-backed company. There are many documentaries about this.

You're correct that farming is likely better than factory work. It might even be more rewarding writing code 9-5. The problem with subsistence farming is that you might starve to death if a drought, flood, or disease kills half your crops.

asdff 8y ago
And in the modern U.S., the very same can happen to the working poor if they loose their job, or an unforeseen expense comes up to make paying for life's necessities suddenly impossible. Perhaps even at the same rate that a natural famine once every decade or so has killed off the poor; last season at least 80,000 people died in the U.S. from the flu [1], a disease that disproportionately affects the working poor and homeless due to poorer overall health. Not much has changed for the poor in this modern world even if they aren't subsistence farmers. [1] https://www.cnn.com/2018/09/26/health/flu-deaths-2017--2018-cdc-bn/index.html https://www.cnn.com/2018/09/26/health/flu-deaths-2017--2018-...
- umanwizard 8y ago
  You were responding to a comment about starving to death with some info about flu deaths... Starving to death is indeed very, very rare in the United States.
  - asdff 8y ago
    But evidently flu deaths are not so rare. Just as starving to death is a consequence of economics for the farmer, dying of the flu is a consequence of economics for the poor in the United States. One cannot pay for food during a famine, and the other cannot pay for health services during the yearly epidemic.
    - umanwizard 8y ago
      What is your point exactly? That industrialized civilization isn’t actually better than abject rural poverty, because a tiny minority of people still die of poverty-related causes? How do the numbers stack up on each side? 80,000 people is less than 1 in 3750 Americans — I’ll take my chances with those odds over living somewhere with regular famines.

TylerE 8y ago

Working in a modern factory and living in a dorm vs living in a rice paddy with no power, no running water, no transportation other than walking.

twblalock 8y ago

> I doubt doing farmwork 12 hours a day is worse than doing the same mundane repetitive action 16 hours a day. Then why do Chinese farmers line up outside the gates of factories hundreds of miles from home in the hope of getting a job? If farming gave them an equivalent or better quality of life, they would just stay at home and keep farming.

asdff 8y ago
Because their cousin is sick. Because they want their daughter to go to school in the city and move up the socioeconomic ladder. Because their parents are injured and can no longer work. These jobs require sacrificing all of your personal freedom to support others. They require enduring human rights abuses themselves to so others don't have to work this very job. The reasons why farmers are leaving their fields isn't for their personal well being at all, it is altruism. The intensity of farm work isn't even comparable. You aren't toiling in the fields doing the same exact thing for hours every day, every month, every year like you do in a factory. Most labor happens during harvest and planting seasons, maintenance labor throughout the year is focused on improving your living conditions or other local projects, something you can't do if you are working for the factory. Unfortunately, things come up that can only be fixed with immediate or continued access to capital, so you have to send one of your family members hundreds of miles away to work in a factory to fuel an emergency fund. The problem with farm work isn't the work, it's the lack of enough pay to deal with disaster.
reaperducer 8y ago
Then why do Chinese farmers line up outside the gates of factories hundreds of miles from home in the hope of getting a job? Because they've been forced to relocate from their farms to manufactured cities by the government which then bulldozed their villages. Then once they're in the city, their choice is to work in the greenhouses of a big government-backed company, or work in the factory of a big government-backed company. There are many documentaries about this.