6 ms·

Progress is incremental. A Foxconn worker has a much higher standard of living than his father who worked in a toy factory. His father had a higher standard of

• news_to_me 8y ago
  I wonder how many subsistence farmers committed suicide.
  • icebraining 8y ago
    Well, 79% of suicides in China (2009-2014) were in rural areas. There was a massive drop in the country's rate as people moved to urban areas. As a related note, during the worst year, Foxconn had 930k workers, and 14 deaths by suicide, so approximately 1.5/100k. In the US, all age groups above 14 have a suicide rate over 10/100k.
  • tzs 8y ago
    I haven't seen anything on subsistence farmers in particular. The closest is the general rural population. Around 80% of Chinese suicides are from the rural population, and the overall Chinese suicide rate is an order of magnitude bigger than the Foxconn suicide rate.
  • PeterisP 8y ago
    Southeast Asia has a very, very large problem with subsistence farmer suicides. Some programs such as restricting access to human-poisonous pesticides have helped where they were implemented, but yes, if you're worried about suicide, you should look at the rural areas, not at the factories. Coincidentally, the same seems to be true in USA - https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/dec/06/why-are-americas-farmers-killing-themselves-in-record-numbers https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/dec/06/why-are-amer... Urbanization is a powerful force; it happens because people want to leave the rural life behind, and as it continues, it pushes the contrast ever more in favor of urban life; people move to the cities because of the opportunities, economy and culture there; and as they do so, they "carry" even more opportunities, economy and culture away from the rural areas to these cities.
• newaccoutnas 8y ago
  I take your point, but a higher standard of living that has increased suicide rates? If we think about the results of those products, as the consumer isn't going to be buying directly from Foxconn but integrated into something from Apple or the like, then is that a 'fair' distribution of wealth made from the final product. It's a tricky one, for sure
  • Aunche 8y ago
    The suicide rate of Foxconn has always been significantly lower than the US. Part of the reason is because healthy, working adults aren't likely to commit suicide in the first place. Even so, in 2010, which was by far the worst year, 14 Foxconn employees committed suicide out of 930,000 employees [1]. The US suicide rate is 13.7 out of 100,000 [2]. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foxconn_suicides https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foxconn_suicides [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_suicide_rate https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_suicide_r...
    • claudiawerner 8y ago
      It's worth noting that there are qualitative differences to be considered, and people committing suicide at that rate (or any rate at all) should be investigated to address the conditions of these workers. To simply look at a comparison of the rates misses out that different factors and motivations drive these suicides.
      • eeZah7Ux 8y ago
        Why the downvotes? Suicide rates are also very biased by how employers, friends and family, and authorities handle the death. Across many cultures people tend to underreport suicides - but to different extents. It's also worth noticing that some behaviors leading to death like overdose, heavy drinking and dangerous activities are not counted as suicide but sometimes they share the same psychological conditions.
    • newaccoutnas 8y ago
      Interesting, thanks
• asianthrowaway 8y ago
  I doubt doing farmwork 12 hours a day is worse than doing the same mundane repetitive action 16 hours a day.
  • Aunche 8y ago
    You're correct that farming is likely better than factory work. It might even be more rewarding writing code 9-5. The problem with subsistence farming is that you might starve to death if a drought, flood, or disease kills half your crops.
    • asdff 8y ago
      And in the modern U.S., the very same can happen to the working poor if they loose their job, or an unforeseen expense comes up to make paying for life's necessities suddenly impossible. Perhaps even at the same rate that a natural famine once every decade or so has killed off the poor; last season at least 80,000 people died in the U.S. from the flu [1], a disease that disproportionately affects the working poor and homeless due to poorer overall health. Not much has changed for the poor in this modern world even if they aren't subsistence farmers. [1] https://www.cnn.com/2018/09/26/health/flu-deaths-2017--2018-cdc-bn/index.html https://www.cnn.com/2018/09/26/health/flu-deaths-2017--2018-...
      • umanwizard 8y ago
        You were responding to a comment about starving to death with some info about flu deaths... Starving to death is indeed very, very rare in the United States.
        • asdff 8y ago
          But evidently flu deaths are not so rare. Just as starving to death is a consequence of economics for the farmer, dying of the flu is a consequence of economics for the poor in the United States. One cannot pay for food during a famine, and the other cannot pay for health services during the yearly epidemic.
• opportune 8y ago
  progress is only incremental because of this absurd belief that any improvement in your life means you have no room to complain - it's how we in the west justify the continuing imperialism of the developing world that we destroyed