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No, a corporation using a federal law enforcement agency to target owners who were disfavored by the corporation is typical of fascism. I'm not even interested

No, a corporation using a federal law enforcement agency to target owners who were disfavored by the corporation is typical of fascism. I'm not even interested in this fake debate that was stirred up about immigration. Of course we have to have enforced borders. Of course we need immigration laws that will be enforced. What concerns me is the collaboration between corporations and state power, all taking place in an atmosphere of acute nationalism.

tomschlick 8y ago
Would you see it the same way if it were related to taxes? As in, if 7-11 found out certain franchisee's were skirting tax laws using their brand name and they reported it to the IRS to avoid any collusion claims ahead of time would that be fascist? If not then how is that different?
- jnbiche 8y ago
  The point of the article is that a unusually high number of businesses targeted for these actions happened to be critiques of corporate 7-Eleven, or engaged in lawsuits. And yes, I would worry likewise if it were taxes used as the underlying cause for these kinds of raids. Again, I'm explicitly not calling this "fascism". I said "emblematic of fascism". I actually don't think we've descended into fascism yet. But as a country, we're getting comfortable with situations that could lead us to a very bad place. Finally, could someone please vouch for my flagged top-level comment, as it's not breaking any HN guidelines as far as I'm aware?
  - will_brown 8y ago
    You could call it “facisism” but that just creates more mudslinging...for example does it help by name calling the franchisees “outlaws” or “criminal enterprises”. It’s ugly behavior for a franchisor to give tips to the federal government about its franchisees illegally hiring undocumented workers...but that’s what happens when you litigate with unclean hands, the otherside will expose you. The Franchisor would be just as likely to inform local police or DEA if they found out the Franchisees were selling drugs out of their stores. What is the government supposed to do with tips like these? Federal government can’t just ignore tips of criminal/illegal activity because the tipster has a personal bone to pick the alleged businesses hiring undocumented immigrants.
    - notacoward 8y ago
      > What is the government supposed to do with tips like these? The answer's right there in the story. Investigate normally, issue subpoenas with a reasonable time to respond, etc. instead of rushing in with large teams of uniformed personnel to disrupt business and discourage customers. It's only a matter of time before someone gets hurt in one of these, but maybe that's the point. Kristallnacht, anyone?
    - jnbiche 8y ago
      > You could call it “facisism” but that just creates more mudslinging...for example does it help by name calling the franchisees “outlaws” or “criminal enterprises”. I'm not really concerned about offending people by using the term "fascism". And it's hardly about the issue alone, or this issue even playing a significant part in my interpretation of where we are with respect to history. It's the entire zeitgeist of the last 10 years that have got me worried, and particularly the past 2 years. If you're at all familiar with interwar European history, then you've probably had at least a few shivers of recognition over the past 2-3 years of that epoch. I mean, by God I hope I'm wrong, and I hope people will look back at my comments from this time and laugh, "what a paranoid idiot". But I don't think I'm wrong. We're at a dangerous point in time. Things could go real bad, real fast.
  - masonic 8y ago
    unusually high number The article doesn't say that. Given that it offers no data on ICE investigation rates of compliant franchisees, you can't even say there is disproportionate enforcement against the non-compliant.
    - jnbiche 8y ago
      You're right. I re-read the article and there's really not enough data to make a firm conclusion, although it seems like a real possibility. I wish people on this site would just argue using facts like you do, instead of downvoting comments to invisibility and flagging them. It's frustrating.
msla 8y ago
No, it isn't: People here want to perform a bait-and-switch: "Corporatism" was a word the Fascists used, but people want it to mean "business involvement in government", so the use it in the new sense while stating it's the word the Fascists used. It's dishonest.

tomschlick 8y ago

Would you see it the same way if it were related to taxes? As in, if 7-11 found out certain franchisee's were skirting tax laws using their brand name and they reported it to the IRS to avoid any collusion claims ahead of time would that be fascist? If not then how is that different?

jnbiche 8y ago
The point of the article is that a unusually high number of businesses targeted for these actions happened to be critiques of corporate 7-Eleven, or engaged in lawsuits. And yes, I would worry likewise if it were taxes used as the underlying cause for these kinds of raids. Again, I'm explicitly not calling this "fascism". I said "emblematic of fascism". I actually don't think we've descended into fascism yet. But as a country, we're getting comfortable with situations that could lead us to a very bad place. Finally, could someone please vouch for my flagged top-level comment, as it's not breaking any HN guidelines as far as I'm aware?
- will_brown 8y ago
  You could call it “facisism” but that just creates more mudslinging...for example does it help by name calling the franchisees “outlaws” or “criminal enterprises”. It’s ugly behavior for a franchisor to give tips to the federal government about its franchisees illegally hiring undocumented workers...but that’s what happens when you litigate with unclean hands, the otherside will expose you. The Franchisor would be just as likely to inform local police or DEA if they found out the Franchisees were selling drugs out of their stores. What is the government supposed to do with tips like these? Federal government can’t just ignore tips of criminal/illegal activity because the tipster has a personal bone to pick the alleged businesses hiring undocumented immigrants.
  - notacoward 8y ago
    > What is the government supposed to do with tips like these? The answer's right there in the story. Investigate normally, issue subpoenas with a reasonable time to respond, etc. instead of rushing in with large teams of uniformed personnel to disrupt business and discourage customers. It's only a matter of time before someone gets hurt in one of these, but maybe that's the point. Kristallnacht, anyone?
  - jnbiche 8y ago
    > You could call it “facisism” but that just creates more mudslinging...for example does it help by name calling the franchisees “outlaws” or “criminal enterprises”. I'm not really concerned about offending people by using the term "fascism". And it's hardly about the issue alone, or this issue even playing a significant part in my interpretation of where we are with respect to history. It's the entire zeitgeist of the last 10 years that have got me worried, and particularly the past 2 years. If you're at all familiar with interwar European history, then you've probably had at least a few shivers of recognition over the past 2-3 years of that epoch. I mean, by God I hope I'm wrong, and I hope people will look back at my comments from this time and laugh, "what a paranoid idiot". But I don't think I'm wrong. We're at a dangerous point in time. Things could go real bad, real fast.
- masonic 8y ago
  unusually high number The article doesn't say that. Given that it offers no data on ICE investigation rates of compliant franchisees, you can't even say there is disproportionate enforcement against the non-compliant.
  - jnbiche 8y ago
    You're right. I re-read the article and there's really not enough data to make a firm conclusion, although it seems like a real possibility. I wish people on this site would just argue using facts like you do, instead of downvoting comments to invisibility and flagging them. It's frustrating.

msla 8y ago

No, it isn't: People here want to perform a bait-and-switch: "Corporatism" was a word the Fascists used, but people want it to mean "business involvement in government", so the use it in the new sense while stating it's the word the Fascists used. It's dishonest.