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Mishra argues from a perspective aligned with the Marxist-socialists we have all heard before. WTF, it is too simplistic to assert that the West (yes, I capita

Mishra argues from a perspective aligned with the Marxist-socialists we have all heard before. WTF, it is too simplistic to assert that the West (yes, I capitalised it) opted to rely on a racial caste system and colonies to support liberal democracy for Whites. Also, I point to ethnic groups in the Far East who saw themselves as master races, civilised above all others in the world. These others did plenty of looting and colonizing too. Instead, think of the USA Civil War, WW1, WW2, the Cold War, and the coming WW3 as a contest: liberal democracy / represrntative government versus monarchies, autocracies, and oligarchies.

dang 8y ago
Please don't turn HN discussions into predictable ideological flamewars. Those are tedious and therefore off topic. There is interesting historical material in this article, which most of us probably didn't know. (I didn't.)
- deleted 8y ago
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devoply 8y ago
> Instead, think of the USA Civil War, WW1, WW2, the Cold War, and the coming WW3 as a contest: liberal democracy / representative government versus monarchies, autocracies, and oligarchies. To talk to this frame is to talk to support the rhetoric which has led to destruction of many countries in the name of liberating them while at the same time supporting other regimes practicing exactly what they are supposed to be condemning. It's a bullshit rhetorical tactic that no one believes anymore. The imperialism you speak of is alive and well and that's why it's the target of condemnation. When it's no longer practiced you can bring up the old canards of whataboutism to justify it as nothing out of the ordinary historically.
negamax 8y ago
It doesn’t take much brain cells to conclude Europe was supported at expense of rest of the planet. It’s failing in today’s economy for exactly the same reason. Globalization and current economic systems transfers wealth by merit instead of force. Many right wing conmen are reminiscing a past that will never be possible as there will never be colonies again
- sgift 8y ago
  EU GDP: 18.8 trillion -- India GDP: 2.5 trillion India has almost three times the population of the EU. If that is "failing" I think we can fail a bit more.
  - negamax 8y ago
    Anyone can prop their GDP by borrowing and making their children under debt. Also, anyone can get rich by looting their neighbors. That's exactly what happened in colonial times. And former is underway. So not sure what you are on about?
    - asianthrowaway 8y ago
      How do you explain the fact that many European countries who had marginal or no colonial empires are among the richest countries in the world today? (Germany, Sweden, etc.)
      - negamax 8y ago
        That's easy. Concentration of looted wealth in a region and regional internal trade with barriers for external entities. Why do you think there are so many voices against WTO? It challenges the status quo built by force.
        jernfrost 8y ago
        Most wealth in most European nations depends on local production and expertise. Why is e.g. the Norwegian fisherman richer than the Bangladeshi fisherman? It is not because he gets more money for each fish he sells. It is because the usage of modern fishing vessels and technology allows him to fish a lot more fish. In Norway we tried to give Bangladeshi fishermen modern Norwegian fishing vessels in the 70s. If failed because they do not have the skill and infrastructure to maintain and support a modern fishing fleet. Value lies in better both superior equipment and the knowledge of how to use it effectively. That advantage exists in Europe regardless of whether Europe gets to exploit other nations or not. Even in colonial times, most economic activity happened locally. Tobacco, sugar and spice does not grow the core of the economy. What mattered most was intensified farming locally. The usage inanimate power, labor specialization and cheaper transport to increase production of food, clothes, tools, furniture, housing etc. Even without actually exploiting the colonies Europeans would have benefited hugely from the maritime explorations. New crops such as potatoes benefited European agriculture greatly.
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goto11 8y ago
That is just wrong. Just take WW2, you have dictatorships on both sides (e.g Germany and USSR) and democracies on both sides (eg. the US and Finland). In WW1 you have monarchies on both sides and various levels of representative governments on both sides. In the cold war you have monarchies on the same side as democracies, and dictatorships and oligarchies on both sides.

dang 8y ago

Please don't turn HN discussions into predictable ideological flamewars. Those are tedious and therefore off topic. There is interesting historical material in this article, which most of us probably didn't know. (I didn't.)

deleted 8y ago
[deleted]

devoply 8y ago

> Instead, think of the USA Civil War, WW1, WW2, the Cold War, and the coming WW3 as a contest: liberal democracy / representative government versus monarchies, autocracies, and oligarchies. To talk to this frame is to talk to support the rhetoric which has led to destruction of many countries in the name of liberating them while at the same time supporting other regimes practicing exactly what they are supposed to be condemning. It's a bullshit rhetorical tactic that no one believes anymore. The imperialism you speak of is alive and well and that's why it's the target of condemnation. When it's no longer practiced you can bring up the old canards of whataboutism to justify it as nothing out of the ordinary historically.

negamax 8y ago

It doesn’t take much brain cells to conclude Europe was supported at expense of rest of the planet. It’s failing in today’s economy for exactly the same reason. Globalization and current economic systems transfers wealth by merit instead of force. Many right wing conmen are reminiscing a past that will never be possible as there will never be colonies again

sgift 8y ago
EU GDP: 18.8 trillion -- India GDP: 2.5 trillion India has almost three times the population of the EU. If that is "failing" I think we can fail a bit more.
- negamax 8y ago
  Anyone can prop their GDP by borrowing and making their children under debt. Also, anyone can get rich by looting their neighbors. That's exactly what happened in colonial times. And former is underway. So not sure what you are on about?
  - asianthrowaway 8y ago
    How do you explain the fact that many European countries who had marginal or no colonial empires are among the richest countries in the world today? (Germany, Sweden, etc.)
    - negamax 8y ago
      That's easy. Concentration of looted wealth in a region and regional internal trade with barriers for external entities. Why do you think there are so many voices against WTO? It challenges the status quo built by force.
      - jernfrost 8y ago
        Most wealth in most European nations depends on local production and expertise. Why is e.g. the Norwegian fisherman richer than the Bangladeshi fisherman? It is not because he gets more money for each fish he sells. It is because the usage of modern fishing vessels and technology allows him to fish a lot more fish. In Norway we tried to give Bangladeshi fishermen modern Norwegian fishing vessels in the 70s. If failed because they do not have the skill and infrastructure to maintain and support a modern fishing fleet. Value lies in better both superior equipment and the knowledge of how to use it effectively. That advantage exists in Europe regardless of whether Europe gets to exploit other nations or not. Even in colonial times, most economic activity happened locally. Tobacco, sugar and spice does not grow the core of the economy. What mattered most was intensified farming locally. The usage inanimate power, labor specialization and cheaper transport to increase production of food, clothes, tools, furniture, housing etc. Even without actually exploiting the colonies Europeans would have benefited hugely from the maritime explorations. New crops such as potatoes benefited European agriculture greatly.

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goto11 8y ago

That is just wrong. Just take WW2, you have dictatorships on both sides (e.g Germany and USSR) and democracies on both sides (eg. the US and Finland). In WW1 you have monarchies on both sides and various levels of representative governments on both sides. In the cold war you have monarchies on the same side as democracies, and dictatorships and oligarchies on both sides.