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Cool hardware, but there's no way I could justify the price to myself with the limited functionality of iOS as it stands today. A lot Apple tech writers/podcast

Cool hardware, but there's no way I could justify the price to myself with the limited functionality of iOS as it stands today. A lot Apple tech writers/podcasters keep saying "just wait for iOS 13!", but the earliest a developer is going to see iOS 13 is 6 months from now at WWDC, the earliest the general public will get any additional functionality is 11 months from now. That's a LONG wait to see if any changes will be made to make these capable of doing real work for all but artistic professionals.

giobox 8y ago
I think given the specifications of these devices, the pricing, while definitely high, is not completely unreasonable for what the hardware can do - these iPads do things no currently shipping Mac notebook can - 120hz refresh, 240hz touch/pen tracking, FaceID, performance in similar ballpark to a $3k MacBook Pro while passively cooled (!) etc etc. It’s just such a shame iOS isn’t quite ready yet to provide the kind of computing experience the hardware is clearly capable enough to deliver. If this is going to be priced like a macOS machine, it needs to offer a reasonable set of Mac style functionality - for me this means proper multi-user support so my family can all use the device with their own accounts and services and ideally some kind of windowing model for the OS to better handle multi-tasking. iOS will need to answer a lot of questions in the next few years that it has so far steadfastly avoided. Apple bragged how these iPads can drive 5k monitors via an Xbox one S performance class GPU, but without indirect input methods (e.g. a mouse) this feature is really not much use for anything other than display mirroring. Today I only ever use video out on iOS devices for occasional video playback on TVs, I suspect I’m not alone in this. iOS will likely either need to support a mouse or Apple will have to create some kind of standard for multi-touch external monitors that can allow iOS application input via touch on the external display if professional class workflows using multiple monitors on iOS is ever going to be a mainstream thing the way it is on the Mac.
- criddell 8y ago
  I'd be surprised if Apple ever does more than the current two-window model. A multi-user feature would certainly be nice though. I think iOS is mostly fine. I don't think it's supposed to be a macOS replacement. There are some things a Mac is better for and other things an iPad is better for. Apple wants you to have both.
  - snazz 8y ago
    You can actually kind of fit three windows on an iPad: two in Split View and another one on top in Slide Over. Even if you can’t interact with the background windows when Slide Over is active, they continue to refresh their contents.
    - saagarjha 8y ago
      Fun fact: I believe you used to be able to interact with the split viewed apps in early betas of iOS, but then the feature was removed and restricted to only when you had one app open.
      - ncw96 8y ago
        You can interact with two Split View apps and one Slide Over app at the same time, but this is limited to newer models (I believe 2017 iPad Pro or newer). If you are on an older iPad, it is as you describe.
        saagarjha 8y ago
        Yes, but this used to be enabled for all iPads. The feature was then removed, probably because older ones just couldn't keep all the apps running reliably.
- jbigelow76 8y ago
  I think given the specifications of these devices, the pricing, while definitely high, is not completely unreasonable for what the hardware can do - these iPads do things no currently shipping Mac notebook can - 120hz refresh, 240hz touch/pen tracking, FaceID, performance in similar ballpark to a $3k MacBook Pro while passively cooled (!) etc etc. Totally agree, and if they had XCode or a decent native C# IDE on there I'd be at an Apple store right now forking over fist fulls of cash.
  - pjmlp 8y ago
    Regarding C#, https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/continuous-net-c-and-f-ide/id1095213378?mt=8 https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/continuous-net-c-and-f-ide/i...
- judge2020 8y ago
  Wouldn't be surprised to see an ARM build of MacOS with new mac models on the A12+ chips.
IOT_Apprentice 8y ago
And another reason to wait a year at least to buy a new iPad Pro if you already have one. Wait till A13x or A14x to see an iOS that can utilize it properly.
- CharlesW 8y ago
  > Wait till A13x or A14x to see an iOS that can utilize it properly. What will these future processors do that's so earth-shattering that it can't be supported on today's iPad Pros, which will run new versions of iOS for many years?
- jbigelow76 8y ago
  Yep, I have a feeling this will happen alot, even if Apple waits 18 months to refresh iPad hardware that's still only 4-6 months from iOS 13's release. And maybe some hardware criticisms, like only one USB-C port, will be addressed (probably not though)
  - yjftsjthsd-h 8y ago
    > only one USB-C port, will be addressed (probably not though) Apple shipped a laptop with only 1 USB port. I'm not holding my breath.
    - lostgame 8y ago
      You can charge, or you can use a dongle for your USB key - but of course never both, unless you pay us $79 for the USB-A/VGA adaptor. I used to love Apple, I really did.
tluyben2 8y ago
I did not hear "wait for iOS 13"; searching Google I see a lot of talk about features that do not seem very interesting. What would it be that we are waiting for? Only thing most (here and elsewhere) are looking for is better multitasking (rather; side by side 'anything', so the same app with different or the same docs open or different apps with different docs and then copy/paste + drag & Drop between them) and more freedom for devs to make better software. I do not read those features in the expected new features for iOS 13 but maybe I am reading the wrong posts?
- jbigelow76 8y ago
  The complaints I've heard: - Lack of mass storage support through USB-C and the Files app (this seems like a comically boneheaded omission that Apple is going to dig their heels in until iOS 13 a year from now). - No XCode - No Final Cut Pro - No Logic Pro - No pointing device especially when used with an external monitor (I don't think anyone should their breath on this one though). Granted, the audience for XCode is small, the audience for Logic Pro is small, people wanting a pointing device is small, etc... but taken in aggregate you end up with a large group that still can't call this iPad a "computer" the same way they can their laptop/desktop.
  - tluyben2 8y ago
    But are any of these fixed with iOS 13 besides the storage? XCode would be really good to have. Pointing device I do not share the pain of, but like you said, it's a small audience for any of those. I think XCode might be bigger as that can touch the 'first programming experience' and educational space here. An actual mature environment that doesn't require all the setup and misery of desktop development.

giobox 8y ago

I think given the specifications of these devices, the pricing, while definitely high, is not completely unreasonable for what the hardware can do - these iPads do things no currently shipping Mac notebook can - 120hz refresh, 240hz touch/pen tracking, FaceID, performance in similar ballpark to a $3k MacBook Pro while passively cooled (!) etc etc. It’s just such a shame iOS isn’t quite ready yet to provide the kind of computing experience the hardware is clearly capable enough to deliver. If this is going to be priced like a macOS machine, it needs to offer a reasonable set of Mac style functionality - for me this means proper multi-user support so my family can all use the device with their own accounts and services and ideally some kind of windowing model for the OS to better handle multi-tasking. iOS will need to answer a lot of questions in the next few years that it has so far steadfastly avoided. Apple bragged how these iPads can drive 5k monitors via an Xbox one S performance class GPU, but without indirect input methods (e.g. a mouse) this feature is really not much use for anything other than display mirroring. Today I only ever use video out on iOS devices for occasional video playback on TVs, I suspect I’m not alone in this. iOS will likely either need to support a mouse or Apple will have to create some kind of standard for multi-touch external monitors that can allow iOS application input via touch on the external display if professional class workflows using multiple monitors on iOS is ever going to be a mainstream thing the way it is on the Mac.

criddell 8y ago
I'd be surprised if Apple ever does more than the current two-window model. A multi-user feature would certainly be nice though. I think iOS is mostly fine. I don't think it's supposed to be a macOS replacement. There are some things a Mac is better for and other things an iPad is better for. Apple wants you to have both.
- snazz 8y ago
  You can actually kind of fit three windows on an iPad: two in Split View and another one on top in Slide Over. Even if you can’t interact with the background windows when Slide Over is active, they continue to refresh their contents.
  - saagarjha 8y ago
    Fun fact: I believe you used to be able to interact with the split viewed apps in early betas of iOS, but then the feature was removed and restricted to only when you had one app open.
    - ncw96 8y ago
      You can interact with two Split View apps and one Slide Over app at the same time, but this is limited to newer models (I believe 2017 iPad Pro or newer). If you are on an older iPad, it is as you describe.
      - saagarjha 8y ago
        Yes, but this used to be enabled for all iPads. The feature was then removed, probably because older ones just couldn't keep all the apps running reliably.
jbigelow76 8y ago
I think given the specifications of these devices, the pricing, while definitely high, is not completely unreasonable for what the hardware can do - these iPads do things no currently shipping Mac notebook can - 120hz refresh, 240hz touch/pen tracking, FaceID, performance in similar ballpark to a $3k MacBook Pro while passively cooled (!) etc etc. Totally agree, and if they had XCode or a decent native C# IDE on there I'd be at an Apple store right now forking over fist fulls of cash.
- pjmlp 8y ago
  Regarding C#, https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/continuous-net-c-and-f-ide/id1095213378?mt=8 https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/continuous-net-c-and-f-ide/i...
judge2020 8y ago
Wouldn't be surprised to see an ARM build of MacOS with new mac models on the A12+ chips.

IOT_Apprentice 8y ago

And another reason to wait a year at least to buy a new iPad Pro if you already have one. Wait till A13x or A14x to see an iOS that can utilize it properly.

CharlesW 8y ago
> Wait till A13x or A14x to see an iOS that can utilize it properly. What will these future processors do that's so earth-shattering that it can't be supported on today's iPad Pros, which will run new versions of iOS for many years?
jbigelow76 8y ago
Yep, I have a feeling this will happen alot, even if Apple waits 18 months to refresh iPad hardware that's still only 4-6 months from iOS 13's release. And maybe some hardware criticisms, like only one USB-C port, will be addressed (probably not though)
- yjftsjthsd-h 8y ago
  > only one USB-C port, will be addressed (probably not though) Apple shipped a laptop with only 1 USB port. I'm not holding my breath.
  - lostgame 8y ago
    You can charge, or you can use a dongle for your USB key - but of course never both, unless you pay us $79 for the USB-A/VGA adaptor. I used to love Apple, I really did.

tluyben2 8y ago

I did not hear "wait for iOS 13"; searching Google I see a lot of talk about features that do not seem very interesting. What would it be that we are waiting for? Only thing most (here and elsewhere) are looking for is better multitasking (rather; side by side 'anything', so the same app with different or the same docs open or different apps with different docs and then copy/paste + drag & Drop between them) and more freedom for devs to make better software. I do not read those features in the expected new features for iOS 13 but maybe I am reading the wrong posts?

jbigelow76 8y ago
The complaints I've heard: - Lack of mass storage support through USB-C and the Files app (this seems like a comically boneheaded omission that Apple is going to dig their heels in until iOS 13 a year from now). - No XCode - No Final Cut Pro - No Logic Pro - No pointing device especially when used with an external monitor (I don't think anyone should their breath on this one though). Granted, the audience for XCode is small, the audience for Logic Pro is small, people wanting a pointing device is small, etc... but taken in aggregate you end up with a large group that still can't call this iPad a "computer" the same way they can their laptop/desktop.
- tluyben2 8y ago
  But are any of these fixed with iOS 13 besides the storage? XCode would be really good to have. Pointing device I do not share the pain of, but like you said, it's a small audience for any of those. I think XCode might be bigger as that can touch the 'first programming experience' and educational space here. An actual mature environment that doesn't require all the setup and misery of desktop development.