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From the article: “What he omitted to mention was that bitcoin has been operating successfully for almost ten years now, with no confirmed cases of fraudulent t
by sharkbot 8y ago
From the article: “What he omitted to mention was that bitcoin has been operating successfully for almost ten years now, with no confirmed cases of fraudulent transactions.“
I think you have to stretch the definition of “fradulent transaction” to the breaking point to be able to make that claim with a straight face. At best, we have a definitive record of every fradulent transaction ever committed with Bitcoin, which is progress of a sort.
- maxerickson 8y agoI guess they are talking about bad entries entering the blockchain and not the legal concept of fraud. Of course, 0 bad entries is probably a necessary condition for a ledger that is supposed to be cryptographically secure.
- andrewprock 8y agoBut this is exactly what Bitcoin cash is.
- maxerickson 8y agoIt's a completely separate chain, a social attack on Bitcoin rather than a technical one.
- andrewprock 8y agoIn fact, it is not a separate chain, it is a single tree.
- maxerickson 8y agoWhich isn't a meaningful concept if you are trying to send a bitcoin from one address to another (aka, "using it").
- andrewprock 8y agoQuite, hence the notion that there has been no fraud is laughable.
- jtbayly 8y agoGrafting a branch onto a chain doesn’t actually affect the chain, though. In the digital world, you don’t have a tree, you have two chains that happen to have identical sections.
- andrewprock 8y agoIt does allow you to double spend though.
- jtbayly 8y agoTrue. Good point. However, and here’s the kicker, it’s no more fake than the original. So as long as somebody will accept it as part of another chain, then it has value.
- andrewprock 8y agoThis feels like a very poor defense of fraud.
- jtbayly 8y agoWell, my point was just that it begs the question. If Bitcoin is fraud, then BCC is fraud. If BCC is fraud then BTC is fraud. So you are left with the task of proving that Bitcoin is fraud in and of itself, rather than on the basis of circular argument.
- andrewprock 8y agoI think we agree there has been double spending. We may not agree on whether that constitutes fraud.
- hanniabu 8y agoFraudulent transactions is not the same as fraud
- decentralised 8y agoIn this context, I believe the "fraudulent" means a double-spend or any other attack that fundamentally altered the supply. After all, that's the problem that is solved by the blockchain.
- omarchowdhury 8y agohttps://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Value_overflow_incident https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Value_overflow_incident
- decentralised 8y agoYes that happened and there was a hard-fork by social consensus. Quite a remarkable example of coordination in an open-source project imho. It's lucky that, at the time, pretty much anyone knowledgeable enough about blockchain would have been in the Bitcoin community!
- b_tterc_p 8y agoTechnically correct. Practically misleading.
- hanniabu 8y agoI'm not seeing how it's misleading, can you expand on that?
- freefal 8y agoYou agree to sell me some Bitcoin. I send you USD on PayPal and you send me Bitcoin. I later dispute the charge on PayPal. Your Bitcoin payment can't be similarly disputed. Now I have both my original USD and your Bitcoin. This happened all the time in the early days of Bitcoin. The Bitcoin network worked as expected, but by most normal definitions of fraud, I've defrauded you.
- LyndsySimon 8y ago
- cam3ham 8y agoI don't think that means what you think it means.
- derefr 8y agoFraudulent like counterfeiting or tax fraud—i.e. tricking the system into allowing you to do something you shouldn't be able to do. Tricking other people out of their BTC, meanwhile, isn't really fraud, it's just theft.
- sandov 8y agoName one fraudulent transaction.
- sharkbot 8y agohttps://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0304393217301666 https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S03043...
- Animats 8y agoRight. "No confirmed cases of counterfeiting" is about as far as you can go. There's been fraud, theft, loss, and about ever scam known.