7 ms·

So why did you leave? (Asking because I have an opportunity to move there.)

djsumdog 8y ago
You should totally do it, and go to Wellington. It's the best city :-P I lived there for three years and miss it. I might try to get another work visa, either to go back to Welly or Melbourne.
- unknown_apostle 8y ago
  So same question: why did you go away, or how did you loose your work visa? For me it's a cool job in Auckland. What worries us is the distance and the logistics of bringing over our entire family... I can see myself working there, bringing over the family, and then loosing my job e.g. because of some recession and not find another job in the grace period.
  - djsumdog 8y ago
    I started with a Holiday Work visa and later applied for and got a regular work visa (was working full time in tech, so they're easy to get). eh, I left for some complicated personal reasons. I wrote a post about it if you're interested: https://khanism.org/perspective/minimalism/ https://khanism.org/perspective/minimalism/ edit: my visa was still good though; could have easily paid to get my work to residence or full residence visas. Kinda wish I had. :-P
    - unknown_apostle 8y ago
      Thx best of luck to you :-)
  - JaggedNZ 8y ago
    If you are in IT then I would not worry to much about the job issue to much past the first job, there is still plenty of demand for skilled IT workers despite the record net migration of the last few years. However, make sure you are comfortable with housing prices / rent, particularly in the Auckland area.
    - unknown_apostle 8y ago
      Yeah it's a job in IT but what if demand drops? My feeling is that people in IT have gotten a bit arrogant about their employability (not just in NZ) I remember the 2001 recession :-) But I don't mind loosing my job for a while. We would mind having to leave the country and move back halfway across the planet after having brought over our family.
    - incompatible 8y ago
      I left NZ decades ago due to lack of software opportunities. I'd be tempted to return, but getting a "first job" in NZ would be a problem if I returned, I think, given that I'm aged over 50 and haven't worked for years. P.S. Avoid Wellington if possible, it's an earthquake mega-disaster waiting to happen.
      - robocat 8y ago
        > P.S. Avoid Wellington if possible, it's an earthquake mega-disaster waiting to happen. What, just like California? I would highly recommend Wellington if you do software, are entrepreneurial, or you are sociable. It is the most cosmopolitan city, the friendliest to foreigners, the friendliest to all ages (because so many people move there to work, and it is the only major city in NZ with a city centre based on walking). Just my opinion as a well travelled NZer. Yes, an earthquake would wreak havoc, but I think the positives well outweigh the risks.
        incompatible 8y ago
        Wellington is a terrible risk, there's a major fault line running right through the city. But yeah, it's a decent place to live in the meantime.
        incompatible 8y ago
        Although, it should be mentioned that the weather is also terrible. I'll never forget that wind.
djrobstep 8y ago
Don't do it. I grew up there. Parochial, small-minded, cliquey people, all the money is in construction and farming rather than tech, poor range of jobs, low wages, and relatively expensive real estate. I moved to Australia, found more interesting work at more than double the salary. Nicer weather and more genuine people, and real multicultural culture due to truly international big cities.
- deleted 8y ago
  [deleted]
- unknown_apostle 8y ago
  But also 30% tax rate, totally open for business, common law, beautiful nature, forced by their difficult geographic location "to try harder" and be more open. I would also say that being a small country puts a limit to having big political ambitions. Many safe, wealthy, stable countries are small and sovereign (or were at least originally based on "small-minded" localist politics). I can see NZ become some kind of Pacific Switzerland -- which arguably is also built on a substrate of conservative or "parochial" people. And is NZ not just as multicultural as Australia? And finally: another commenter here responded "New Zealand's software industry is significantly more mature than it was 2+ decades ago." Can you understand what he means by that? When did you leave NZ? I hope you care to elaborate, we have to decide next week so any opinion is welcome, especially if you grew up there :-)
  - nathan_f77 8y ago
    I also grew up in New Zealand, and it's not for me. It's great if you want to start a family and have a very quiet life. I think I might retire there if I can somehow afford a house. One of the main reasons I left is that I could never afford a house, or even the down-payment on a mortgage. If I had lots of money then New Zealand would probably be more appealing to me, but it's not a good place to earn it. I don't know if you'll be able to get a very competitive salary, but it might be worth it if you're really excited about the company, and you'll be working on some really interesting things. One thing to mention is that most shops will close at 5pm, and many cafes even close at 3pm. I think once a week, the shopping malls will stay open until 10pm. The streets are completely quiet at night, and you won't see anyone walking around. After living in bigger cities for a while, I'm always really shocked when I go back for a visit. It's like a ghost town. It's an important factor for me because I work remotely, so I hated being stuck at home and having nowhere to go at 8pm. Another very important point: You will probably have to cook almost all of your own food at home. Going out to eat at cafes and restaurant is extremely expensive, and it's probably not something that you can afford to do every day (especially not on a NZ salary.) I'm used to living in cities where it's normal to eat out at restaurants most of the time. But you can't do that in New Zealand unless you're very wealthy. Anyway, it's great if you want to live somewhere quiet and raise a family. You can also spend lots of time at the beach, and go for walks in nature. But you can do that in lots of other countries, too. Personally, I prefer to live somewhere a bit more vibrant, where there's a lot of opportunities and things to do.
toomanybeersies 8y ago
I was born and raised in New Zealand, but left soon after graduating university for Australia. The pay in New Zealand is just not that good, especially with house prices rising the way they have been over the past decade. Upon saying that, if I grow old and have kids, I'd love to move back. Good work-life balance, relaxed lifestyle, and ready access to the outdoors. 30% of the land in New Zealand is conservation land owned by the government and publicly accessible. If you live outside of Auckland, you can get outside the city in half an hour, and be in proper wilderness within an hour. All the major cities are coastal too, with great beaches in the summer (although the water is rather cold year round). It's definitely a great place if you have children. New Zealand is an incredibly egalitarian country due to its small size. I noticed a big contrast between NZ and Australia when I moved to Australia with how much people here talk about their background. People in Australia talk a lot more about their cultural heritage (e.g. whether their ancestors were Italian, British, or wherever else), and there's a lot more elitism about where people went to high school (private schools are very popular in Australia, not so much in NZ) and where they went to university. Since NZ only really has one university per city, people don't really care where you went to university, whereas Melbourne has like 7 universities, and there's a lot of elitism about what university you manage to get into.
peterashford 8y ago
As a New Zealander working in IT (games dev), I would agree with the criticism that NZ cost of living is high and house ownership is expensive (esp. in Auckland) and wages are relatively low. However, the other criticisms I saw reported here about cafes closing at 3pm(!) and Australians being more open-minded are just bizarre. The NZ game dev community is very warm and sharing (actually, the Australian game-devs are too)

You should totally do it, and go to Wellington. It's the best city :-P I lived there for three years and miss it. I might try to get another work visa, either to go back to Welly or Melbourne.

unknown_apostle 8y ago
So same question: why did you go away, or how did you loose your work visa? For me it's a cool job in Auckland. What worries us is the distance and the logistics of bringing over our entire family... I can see myself working there, bringing over the family, and then loosing my job e.g. because of some recession and not find another job in the grace period.
- djsumdog 8y ago
  I started with a Holiday Work visa and later applied for and got a regular work visa (was working full time in tech, so they're easy to get). eh, I left for some complicated personal reasons. I wrote a post about it if you're interested: https://khanism.org/perspective/minimalism/ https://khanism.org/perspective/minimalism/ edit: my visa was still good though; could have easily paid to get my work to residence or full residence visas. Kinda wish I had. :-P
  - unknown_apostle 8y ago
    Thx best of luck to you :-)
- JaggedNZ 8y ago
  If you are in IT then I would not worry to much about the job issue to much past the first job, there is still plenty of demand for skilled IT workers despite the record net migration of the last few years. However, make sure you are comfortable with housing prices / rent, particularly in the Auckland area.
  - unknown_apostle 8y ago
    Yeah it's a job in IT but what if demand drops? My feeling is that people in IT have gotten a bit arrogant about their employability (not just in NZ) I remember the 2001 recession :-) But I don't mind loosing my job for a while. We would mind having to leave the country and move back halfway across the planet after having brought over our family.
  - incompatible 8y ago
    I left NZ decades ago due to lack of software opportunities. I'd be tempted to return, but getting a "first job" in NZ would be a problem if I returned, I think, given that I'm aged over 50 and haven't worked for years. P.S. Avoid Wellington if possible, it's an earthquake mega-disaster waiting to happen.
    - robocat 8y ago
      > P.S. Avoid Wellington if possible, it's an earthquake mega-disaster waiting to happen. What, just like California? I would highly recommend Wellington if you do software, are entrepreneurial, or you are sociable. It is the most cosmopolitan city, the friendliest to foreigners, the friendliest to all ages (because so many people move there to work, and it is the only major city in NZ with a city centre based on walking). Just my opinion as a well travelled NZer. Yes, an earthquake would wreak havoc, but I think the positives well outweigh the risks.
      - incompatible 8y ago
        Wellington is a terrible risk, there's a major fault line running right through the city. But yeah, it's a decent place to live in the meantime.
        incompatible 8y ago
        Although, it should be mentioned that the weather is also terrible. I'll never forget that wind.

djrobstep 8y ago

Don't do it. I grew up there. Parochial, small-minded, cliquey people, all the money is in construction and farming rather than tech, poor range of jobs, low wages, and relatively expensive real estate. I moved to Australia, found more interesting work at more than double the salary. Nicer weather and more genuine people, and real multicultural culture due to truly international big cities.

deleted 8y ago
[deleted]
unknown_apostle 8y ago
But also 30% tax rate, totally open for business, common law, beautiful nature, forced by their difficult geographic location "to try harder" and be more open. I would also say that being a small country puts a limit to having big political ambitions. Many safe, wealthy, stable countries are small and sovereign (or were at least originally based on "small-minded" localist politics). I can see NZ become some kind of Pacific Switzerland -- which arguably is also built on a substrate of conservative or "parochial" people. And is NZ not just as multicultural as Australia? And finally: another commenter here responded "New Zealand's software industry is significantly more mature than it was 2+ decades ago." Can you understand what he means by that? When did you leave NZ? I hope you care to elaborate, we have to decide next week so any opinion is welcome, especially if you grew up there :-)
- nathan_f77 8y ago
  I also grew up in New Zealand, and it's not for me. It's great if you want to start a family and have a very quiet life. I think I might retire there if I can somehow afford a house. One of the main reasons I left is that I could never afford a house, or even the down-payment on a mortgage. If I had lots of money then New Zealand would probably be more appealing to me, but it's not a good place to earn it. I don't know if you'll be able to get a very competitive salary, but it might be worth it if you're really excited about the company, and you'll be working on some really interesting things. One thing to mention is that most shops will close at 5pm, and many cafes even close at 3pm. I think once a week, the shopping malls will stay open until 10pm. The streets are completely quiet at night, and you won't see anyone walking around. After living in bigger cities for a while, I'm always really shocked when I go back for a visit. It's like a ghost town. It's an important factor for me because I work remotely, so I hated being stuck at home and having nowhere to go at 8pm. Another very important point: You will probably have to cook almost all of your own food at home. Going out to eat at cafes and restaurant is extremely expensive, and it's probably not something that you can afford to do every day (especially not on a NZ salary.) I'm used to living in cities where it's normal to eat out at restaurants most of the time. But you can't do that in New Zealand unless you're very wealthy. Anyway, it's great if you want to live somewhere quiet and raise a family. You can also spend lots of time at the beach, and go for walks in nature. But you can do that in lots of other countries, too. Personally, I prefer to live somewhere a bit more vibrant, where there's a lot of opportunities and things to do.

toomanybeersies 8y ago

I was born and raised in New Zealand, but left soon after graduating university for Australia. The pay in New Zealand is just not that good, especially with house prices rising the way they have been over the past decade. Upon saying that, if I grow old and have kids, I'd love to move back. Good work-life balance, relaxed lifestyle, and ready access to the outdoors. 30% of the land in New Zealand is conservation land owned by the government and publicly accessible. If you live outside of Auckland, you can get outside the city in half an hour, and be in proper wilderness within an hour. All the major cities are coastal too, with great beaches in the summer (although the water is rather cold year round). It's definitely a great place if you have children. New Zealand is an incredibly egalitarian country due to its small size. I noticed a big contrast between NZ and Australia when I moved to Australia with how much people here talk about their background. People in Australia talk a lot more about their cultural heritage (e.g. whether their ancestors were Italian, British, or wherever else), and there's a lot more elitism about where people went to high school (private schools are very popular in Australia, not so much in NZ) and where they went to university. Since NZ only really has one university per city, people don't really care where you went to university, whereas Melbourne has like 7 universities, and there's a lot of elitism about what university you manage to get into.

peterashford 8y ago

As a New Zealander working in IT (games dev), I would agree with the criticism that NZ cost of living is high and house ownership is expensive (esp. in Auckland) and wages are relatively low. However, the other criticisms I saw reported here about cafes closing at 3pm(!) and Australians being more open-minded are just bizarre. The NZ game dev community is very warm and sharing (actually, the Australian game-devs are too)