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> The problem, obviously, is not Agile. Sure, any true Scotsman can see that. What reason do we have to believe that Agile is so great, if (as you point out)

by ken 8y ago

> The problem, obviously, is not Agile. Sure, any true Scotsman can see that. What reason do we have to believe that Agile is so great, if (as you point out) most business aren't actually doing Agile?

wgerard 8y ago
> What reason do we have to believe that Agile is so great, if (as you point out) most business aren't actually doing Agile? Read the anecdotes on the other end. People who have reached the shining city the article describes. It's a nice place to be. There are a few in this thread alone. I've personally experienced it as well. It's great. > Sure, any true Scotsman can see that. To continue the analogy, this is roughly the equivalent of declaring myself Scottish because I'm wearing a kilt and playing bagpipes. I have no connection to the country of Scotland presently or historically, but I'm doing the things that Scottish people are stereotypically associated with, so I must be Scottish, right? At that point, I think it's fair to call my bluff.
coldtea 8y ago
>Sure, any true Scotsman can see that. I call BS. Yes, the "any true Scotsman" fallacy can happen in a discussion. But it's also true that some things are presented as X but are not X, and it's not a fallacy to point this out. Here the parent specifically called attributes of Agile that are there in the original manifesto, but are not adhered. That's not shifting the definition (which is what a no true Scotsman is about), it's about pointing that a thing doesn't adhere to the original definition it was supposed to hold. >What reason do we have to believe that Agile is so great, if (as you point out) most business aren't actually doing Agile? That's an orthogonal question. Agile might be great or bad. But we can't deduce from businesses doing something non-agile and calling it Agile whether agile is good or bad. At best we can deduce that Agile has a tendency to be wrongly applied.

by ken 8y ago

wgerard 8y ago

> What reason do we have to believe that Agile is so great, if (as you point out) most business aren't actually doing Agile? Read the anecdotes on the other end. People who have reached the shining city the article describes. It's a nice place to be. There are a few in this thread alone. I've personally experienced it as well. It's great. > Sure, any true Scotsman can see that. To continue the analogy, this is roughly the equivalent of declaring myself Scottish because I'm wearing a kilt and playing bagpipes. I have no connection to the country of Scotland presently or historically, but I'm doing the things that Scottish people are stereotypically associated with, so I must be Scottish, right? At that point, I think it's fair to call my bluff.

coldtea 8y ago

>Sure, any true Scotsman can see that. I call BS. Yes, the "any true Scotsman" fallacy can happen in a discussion. But it's also true that some things are presented as X but are not X, and it's not a fallacy to point this out. Here the parent specifically called attributes of Agile that are there in the original manifesto, but are not adhered. That's not shifting the definition (which is what a no true Scotsman is about), it's about pointing that a thing doesn't adhere to the original definition it was supposed to hold. >What reason do we have to believe that Agile is so great, if (as you point out) most business aren't actually doing Agile? That's an orthogonal question. Agile might be great or bad. But we can't deduce from businesses doing something non-agile and calling it Agile whether agile is good or bad. At best we can deduce that Agile has a tendency to be wrongly applied.