6 ms·

Apple's new bootloader won't let you install GNU/Linux

62 points by pimeys 8y ago

the_duke 8y ago
As if I needed more reasons to dislike Apple... Let's hope there is enough community pushback to force Apple into making user modifications to trusted keys possible.
- village-idiot 8y ago
  You’ll need to find different reasons, this article is flat out wrong. You can install Linux, you just need to disable secure boot. Source: https://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2018/11/apple-t2-chip-cant-boot-linux https://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2018/11/apple-t2-chip-cant-boot-...
  - deleted 8y ago
    [deleted]
- the_duke 8y ago
  Since I can't edit anymore: So this is apparently false, you can disable secure boot. Still don't like apple though. :D
mishurov 8y ago
Good. Linux is for the few thinking not for the many retarded NPCs.
asutekku 8y ago
I mean the reason to buy Apple is the Software and hardware combination. Why would you install Linux on a Mac when pretty much every other cheaper laptop is more suitable for that?
- nerdponx 8y ago
  Not necessarily. Their hardware on its own is excellent, issues with keyboards notwithstanding.
- tarboreus 8y ago
  I was issued a Mac Air by my employer. OSX feels like an operating system for children. If this was in effect then, I would have just put the computer on the shelf as the toy it is.
  - HatchedLake721 8y ago
    For children, really? And Linux is for grown up adults with beards?
  - scarface74 8y ago
    OS X is real certified Unix. What can’t you do with OS X that you could do with Linux?
    - claudius 8y ago
      Install a compiler without an Apple account?
      - scarface74 8y ago
        Why would you need an Apple account to install any other compiler besides XCode - something you wouldn’t be doing with Linux?
        claudius 8y ago
        There's no pre-installed compilers on it (at least as of 2013) and Homebrew needed me to install XCode first before it could do anything. Admittedly I stopped looking into it and just shelfed the laptop until requesting a saner one.
        scarface74 8y ago
        Which compilers?
        8y ago
- pdkl95 8y ago
  The laptop is their property; they don't need to justify how they want to use their own property. Locking down the bootloader against the laptop owner's wishes is an attempt to de facto usurp the owner's basic property rights. Apple is not the owner of he laptop; they have no right to mandate how their product is used after the first sale.
  - gsich 8y ago
    After you bought it, it's your property. People tend to forget this. People are also allowed to install macOS on standard PC hardware, despite Apple crying "not allowed".
- specialist 8y ago
  You're right. I've never even be tempted to install bootcamp. But maybe someday I will. Fortunately, per above fact checker, disabling secure boot allows Linux installs. I hope that someone works with Apple to sign some Linux distro(s), recognized by secure boot. I deeply appreciate Apple's efforts to locking down their gear. But would still like the option of installing known good Linux, xBSD, Haiku, etc.
- yayana 8y ago
  Apple hardware was the most reasonable hardware to issue to OS developers. Apple is forced to keep things as stable as possible since new OsX drivers are their problem. You could also test every OS on the same hardware, which is the only use we had for OsX after setup tasks.
bentona 8y ago
I love the quality of apple hardware. I love knowing that the software was built for the hardware (or vice-versa, whatever). I do not enjoy configuring operating systems & desktop environments - I want to solve problems in the app I'm developing, not my development environment. I have been delaying upgrading my MBP and iPhone, however, because I'm scared. I'm scared that the headphone-jack-removal, touchbar, locked-down-bootloader philosophy will continue, and I'll have to buy a thinkpad. I want to keep being an apple fanboy, but they're making it difficult.
pocket 8y ago
Pretty sure you can choose to disable the secure boot options… from only the latest, to ones that were at one point trusted (old OSes), to no restrictions - https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT208330 https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT208330
- janoc 8y ago
  You can - but it also apparently disables storage access. So you can boot Linux but not install it.
  - ChrisSD 8y ago
    Isn't that just a driver issue? Apple's T2 chip is a collection of customised hardware, no?
  - rebane2001 8y ago
    But if you really wanted to, you could still install a distro on USB I guess
amaccuish 8y ago
(Copying my comment from the last time this appeared) This has been duped many times. And wrong. There is an option to entirely disable secure boot. See this for accurate info: https://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2018/11/apple-t2-chip-cant-boot-linux https://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2018/11/apple-t2-chip-cant-boot-... Dupes: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18383250 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18383250 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18396925 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18396925 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18383512 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18383512 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18423560 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18423560
- aquova 8y ago
  The article you posted seems to have been taken down. Do you have another link to the information? EDIT: It was copy pasted wrong, here it is: https://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2018/11/apple-t2-chip-cant-boot-linux https://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2018/11/apple-t2-chip-cant-boot-...
  - amaccuish 8y ago
    Thanks, I've corrected
- ac29 8y ago
  This particular article doesn't claim the new Macs can't boot Linux, only that you cannot boot Linux (or anything aside from macOS and Windows) with secure boot on, because you can't load your own trusted keys. Pretty much all other hardware in the price range allows you to load your own keys, and thus securely boot anything you want.
  - amaccuish 8y ago
    > This particular article doesn't claim the new Macs can't boot Linux Yes it does. And it references the also incorrect phoronix article as evidence. It provides Chromebooks as an example with a hardware switch; the new T2 has an equivalent software switch. But the article ignores this and reads as if it's not possible to run Linux at all.
ExcavateGrandMa 8y ago
Doesn't matter... Anyway the eaten Apple is total crap! Why would you install Linux on hardware specially done for apple ios... pretty dumb to me ;)

62 points by pimeys 8y ago

As if I needed more reasons to dislike Apple... Let's hope there is enough community pushback to force Apple into making user modifications to trusted keys possible.

village-idiot 8y ago
You’ll need to find different reasons, this article is flat out wrong. You can install Linux, you just need to disable secure boot. Source: https://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2018/11/apple-t2-chip-cant-boot-linux https://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2018/11/apple-t2-chip-cant-boot-...
- deleted 8y ago
  [deleted]
the_duke 8y ago
Since I can't edit anymore: So this is apparently false, you can disable secure boot. Still don't like apple though. :D

mishurov 8y ago

Good. Linux is for the few thinking not for the many retarded NPCs.

asutekku 8y ago

I mean the reason to buy Apple is the Software and hardware combination. Why would you install Linux on a Mac when pretty much every other cheaper laptop is more suitable for that?

nerdponx 8y ago
Not necessarily. Their hardware on its own is excellent, issues with keyboards notwithstanding.
tarboreus 8y ago
I was issued a Mac Air by my employer. OSX feels like an operating system for children. If this was in effect then, I would have just put the computer on the shelf as the toy it is.
- HatchedLake721 8y ago
  For children, really? And Linux is for grown up adults with beards?
- scarface74 8y ago
  OS X is real certified Unix. What can’t you do with OS X that you could do with Linux?
  - claudius 8y ago
    Install a compiler without an Apple account?
    - scarface74 8y ago
      Why would you need an Apple account to install any other compiler besides XCode - something you wouldn’t be doing with Linux?
      - claudius 8y ago
        There's no pre-installed compilers on it (at least as of 2013) and Homebrew needed me to install XCode first before it could do anything. Admittedly I stopped looking into it and just shelfed the laptop until requesting a saner one.
        scarface74 8y ago
        Which compilers?
        8y ago
pdkl95 8y ago
The laptop is their property; they don't need to justify how they want to use their own property. Locking down the bootloader against the laptop owner's wishes is an attempt to de facto usurp the owner's basic property rights. Apple is not the owner of he laptop; they have no right to mandate how their product is used after the first sale.
- gsich 8y ago
  After you bought it, it's your property. People tend to forget this. People are also allowed to install macOS on standard PC hardware, despite Apple crying "not allowed".
specialist 8y ago
You're right. I've never even be tempted to install bootcamp. But maybe someday I will. Fortunately, per above fact checker, disabling secure boot allows Linux installs. I hope that someone works with Apple to sign some Linux distro(s), recognized by secure boot. I deeply appreciate Apple's efforts to locking down their gear. But would still like the option of installing known good Linux, xBSD, Haiku, etc.
yayana 8y ago
Apple hardware was the most reasonable hardware to issue to OS developers. Apple is forced to keep things as stable as possible since new OsX drivers are their problem. You could also test every OS on the same hardware, which is the only use we had for OsX after setup tasks.

bentona 8y ago

I love the quality of apple hardware. I love knowing that the software was built for the hardware (or vice-versa, whatever). I do not enjoy configuring operating systems & desktop environments - I want to solve problems in the app I'm developing, not my development environment. I have been delaying upgrading my MBP and iPhone, however, because I'm scared. I'm scared that the headphone-jack-removal, touchbar, locked-down-bootloader philosophy will continue, and I'll have to buy a thinkpad. I want to keep being an apple fanboy, but they're making it difficult.

pocket 8y ago

Pretty sure you can choose to disable the secure boot options… from only the latest, to ones that were at one point trusted (old OSes), to no restrictions - https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT208330 https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT208330

janoc 8y ago
You can - but it also apparently disables storage access. So you can boot Linux but not install it.
- ChrisSD 8y ago
  Isn't that just a driver issue? Apple's T2 chip is a collection of customised hardware, no?
- rebane2001 8y ago
  But if you really wanted to, you could still install a distro on USB I guess

amaccuish 8y ago

(Copying my comment from the last time this appeared) This has been duped many times. And wrong. There is an option to entirely disable secure boot. See this for accurate info: https://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2018/11/apple-t2-chip-cant-boot-linux https://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2018/11/apple-t2-chip-cant-boot-... Dupes: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18383250 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18383250 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18396925 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18396925 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18383512 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18383512 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18423560 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18423560

aquova 8y ago
The article you posted seems to have been taken down. Do you have another link to the information? EDIT: It was copy pasted wrong, here it is: https://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2018/11/apple-t2-chip-cant-boot-linux https://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2018/11/apple-t2-chip-cant-boot-...
- amaccuish 8y ago
  Thanks, I've corrected
ac29 8y ago
This particular article doesn't claim the new Macs can't boot Linux, only that you cannot boot Linux (or anything aside from macOS and Windows) with secure boot on, because you can't load your own trusted keys. Pretty much all other hardware in the price range allows you to load your own keys, and thus securely boot anything you want.
- amaccuish 8y ago
  > This particular article doesn't claim the new Macs can't boot Linux Yes it does. And it references the also incorrect phoronix article as evidence. It provides Chromebooks as an example with a hardware switch; the new T2 has an equivalent software switch. But the article ignores this and reads as if it's not possible to run Linux at all.

ExcavateGrandMa 8y ago

Doesn't matter... Anyway the eaten Apple is total crap! Why would you install Linux on hardware specially done for apple ios... pretty dumb to me ;)