4 ms·

Patrick, don't you think you should reflect on what you are doing before taking sentient neurons and forcing them to live their entire lives confined inside a m

Patrick, don't you think you should reflect on what you are doing before taking sentient neurons and forcing them to live their entire lives confined inside a machine, with no possibility of escape? How would you enjoy being born into such captivity? What would you do if you were experiencing an endless state of pain but lacked the language ability to communicate your pain to your owner? I have written to the Vatican already suggesting that they push to make neural slavery illegal, as it violates the principle of the dignity of sentient life. I hope you will please reflect on what you are doing and stop doing it voluntarily instead of waiting for the laws to change and make what you are doing illegal. Whether legal or not, any form of slavery is immoral.

eindiran 8y ago
Is this satire or do you actually believe that this constitutes sentience being digitally enslaved?
- jonmrodriguez 8y ago
  This is not satire. If it helps explain my position, I also agree with the scientific consensus that animals, not just humans, are sentient, and that sentience comes in varying degrees rather than just a binary yes or no. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Animal_consciousness#Cambridge_Declaration_on_Consciousness https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Animal_consciousness#Cambridge... For what it's worth, I am vegan and have invested 10 years worth of my salary into synthetic meat companies to help save animal lives.
solipsism 8y ago
Curious to know how the Vatican comes into this. Not much of science pays any attention to that regressive medieval institution.
- jonmrodriguez 8y ago
  The Vatican these days is no longer regressive, at least on scientific issues. Here is a letter from the Pope in 2015 urging action on climate change: http://w2.vatican.va/content/francesco/en/encyclicals/documents/papa-francesco_20150524_enciclica-laudato-si.html http://w2.vatican.va/content/francesco/en/encyclicals/docume... Here is a video produced by the Vatican along with the letter: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KXA5_juFgDg https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KXA5_juFgDg The Big Bang theory of the origin of the universe was invented by a Catholic priest. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Georges_Lema%C3%AEtre https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Georges_Lema%C3%AEtre I've also spoken with a retired Bishop who mentioned that in his personal view, it is possible that a multiverse with more than one universe could exist. All in all, Catholic leadership today is impressively open-minded.
FlowNote 8y ago
Neanderthals aren't legally human and organoids do not have awareness in the manner you are attempting to establish. Interestingly, a network of organiods, connected via neuromorphic arbiters, could provide some interesting intepretations of awareness, especially when the organoids cross species lines. From a national security perspective, the West has to get over its crippling squeamishness on all things genomics or else the Chinese will completely dominate the neuromorphic space. From a moral perspective, if you are concerned about stopping slavery, I recommend tackling actual instances of it, such as the open air slave markets in Libya or addressing the valid concerns of any one of the hundreds of millions of rural Chinese. From an ethical standpoint, there are a couple federally funded institutions that traffic stem cells who could use some spotlight in them. I'm unsure if a religious institution mired in worldwide pedophilia accusations is the right party you want to associate with to stop this. I recommend stepping off the soapbox for a moment and try explaining, precisely, how many neurons are required for the sentience you are describing. Is it 1? 10? 1,345? Quantifying sentience is your burden. Blanket policies of "all neurons are sacred" are prematurely alarmist.
- dragonwriter 8y ago
  > Neanderthals aren't legally human Them being extinct for 40K years leave a paucity of cases on the topic, but I don't think there is any firm grounding for that claim.
- jonmrodriguez 8y ago
  Please understand that I have no problem with genetic engineering in general, and am probably one of the few people on this thread with genetic engineering experience. I have customized a DNA sequence and had my custom version synthesized into a plasmid, which worked as designed. I am a huge proponent of genetic engineering technology when applied to extend human life and augment human capabilities. I think that an arms race mentality is a dangerous approach to engineering ethics. I would rather that the arms race of the Cold War have been avoided if it were possible, even if it meant one or both sides being willing to lag behind when it comes to ethically dangerous technology. Do you have a citation for the supposition that Neanderthals are not legally human? I believe that the legal personhood of Neanderthals has not yet been established, and would likely have to go the Supreme Court. If legal personhood was denied to Neanderthals (homo sapiens neanderthalensis), would you say that it should be denied to mentally challenged homo sapiens sapiens as well? I am Catholic and have no choice but to align with the Vatican. I am just trying to do the right thing no matter whether it's with the help of a national government, a religious authority, or simply individuals who want to do the right thing. Please don't accuse me of not doing enough. I have invested 10 years of my salary into animal welfare companies and outrighted donated 2 years of my salary to other philanthropic organizations including medical and educational organizations. I'm just trying to do the best I can and there's not much more I can do.

eindiran 8y ago

Is this satire or do you actually believe that this constitutes sentience being digitally enslaved?

jonmrodriguez 8y ago
This is not satire. If it helps explain my position, I also agree with the scientific consensus that animals, not just humans, are sentient, and that sentience comes in varying degrees rather than just a binary yes or no. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Animal_consciousness#Cambridge_Declaration_on_Consciousness https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Animal_consciousness#Cambridge... For what it's worth, I am vegan and have invested 10 years worth of my salary into synthetic meat companies to help save animal lives.

solipsism 8y ago

Curious to know how the Vatican comes into this. Not much of science pays any attention to that regressive medieval institution.

jonmrodriguez 8y ago
The Vatican these days is no longer regressive, at least on scientific issues. Here is a letter from the Pope in 2015 urging action on climate change: http://w2.vatican.va/content/francesco/en/encyclicals/documents/papa-francesco_20150524_enciclica-laudato-si.html http://w2.vatican.va/content/francesco/en/encyclicals/docume... Here is a video produced by the Vatican along with the letter: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KXA5_juFgDg https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KXA5_juFgDg The Big Bang theory of the origin of the universe was invented by a Catholic priest. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Georges_Lema%C3%AEtre https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Georges_Lema%C3%AEtre I've also spoken with a retired Bishop who mentioned that in his personal view, it is possible that a multiverse with more than one universe could exist. All in all, Catholic leadership today is impressively open-minded.

FlowNote 8y ago

Neanderthals aren't legally human and organoids do not have awareness in the manner you are attempting to establish. Interestingly, a network of organiods, connected via neuromorphic arbiters, could provide some interesting intepretations of awareness, especially when the organoids cross species lines. From a national security perspective, the West has to get over its crippling squeamishness on all things genomics or else the Chinese will completely dominate the neuromorphic space. From a moral perspective, if you are concerned about stopping slavery, I recommend tackling actual instances of it, such as the open air slave markets in Libya or addressing the valid concerns of any one of the hundreds of millions of rural Chinese. From an ethical standpoint, there are a couple federally funded institutions that traffic stem cells who could use some spotlight in them. I'm unsure if a religious institution mired in worldwide pedophilia accusations is the right party you want to associate with to stop this. I recommend stepping off the soapbox for a moment and try explaining, precisely, how many neurons are required for the sentience you are describing. Is it 1? 10? 1,345? Quantifying sentience is your burden. Blanket policies of "all neurons are sacred" are prematurely alarmist.

dragonwriter 8y ago
> Neanderthals aren't legally human Them being extinct for 40K years leave a paucity of cases on the topic, but I don't think there is any firm grounding for that claim.
jonmrodriguez 8y ago
Please understand that I have no problem with genetic engineering in general, and am probably one of the few people on this thread with genetic engineering experience. I have customized a DNA sequence and had my custom version synthesized into a plasmid, which worked as designed. I am a huge proponent of genetic engineering technology when applied to extend human life and augment human capabilities. I think that an arms race mentality is a dangerous approach to engineering ethics. I would rather that the arms race of the Cold War have been avoided if it were possible, even if it meant one or both sides being willing to lag behind when it comes to ethically dangerous technology. Do you have a citation for the supposition that Neanderthals are not legally human? I believe that the legal personhood of Neanderthals has not yet been established, and would likely have to go the Supreme Court. If legal personhood was denied to Neanderthals (homo sapiens neanderthalensis), would you say that it should be denied to mentally challenged homo sapiens sapiens as well? I am Catholic and have no choice but to align with the Vatican. I am just trying to do the right thing no matter whether it's with the help of a national government, a religious authority, or simply individuals who want to do the right thing. Please don't accuse me of not doing enough. I have invested 10 years of my salary into animal welfare companies and outrighted donated 2 years of my salary to other philanthropic organizations including medical and educational organizations. I'm just trying to do the best I can and there's not much more I can do.