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> If you own a decently sized family home with a garden you're just not going to give it up and move into a block of flats. It's a strict downgrade in every sen

> If you own a decently sized family home with a garden you're just not going to give it up and move into a block of flats. It's a strict downgrade in every sense of the word, even if the square footage is the same. I appreciate that this is probably true for the majority of people (at least in the west?) but it certainly doesn't apply to me, nor some of my friends. I like not having a front/back yard to maintain (I don't enjoy gardening). I like the views that you can only get from higher floors, especially city views. I've even come to rely on some of the conveniences, like having a mail room with someone that'll sign for packages while I'm away. And that's not to mention the many benefits of living in a higher-density neighborhood, which would be impossible in a place full of semi-/fully-detached houses. > No-one wants to live in a block of flats unless they're too poor to afford a house. I almost have the opposite view to you, which is that I wouldn't give up my apartment lifestyle unless I was priced out of the city, and could only afford a house in the suburbs. In the end it's up to personal preference, and you're certainly welcome to prefer a house. But don't assume that everyone has the same preference as you.

esotericn 8y ago
Repeating my post from below: I'm obviously simplifying. Luxury apartments downtown are different to the sort of monstrosities you see in suburbs. Moving from a family home in a suburb into the city =/= moving from a family home into a block of flats on the same street. The latter is what I am calling a 'strict downgrade'.
Spooky23 8y ago
People tend to revisit these preferences when their oldest turns 4, and they discover the unfortunate shitshow that is urban schools.
- screye 8y ago
  I feel that often the complaints associated with loving in urban apartments has less to do with the apartments themselves, and more societal trends that have arisen out of rich people sticking to suburbs over multiple generations. Schools are the #1 example of this. Badly maintained rental apartments and higher crime rates are some other examples of the same.
  - noir_lord 8y ago
    > Badly maintained rental apartments Not just badly maintained but badly designed as well. I've live in flats (apartments) since 2003 and off the two I actually liked there was a single distinguishing characteristic - They where quiet. One was a department store that was converted so the floors where thick rebar concrete and the current one was just well designed in terms of noise. Noise is an absolute determining factor on where I choose to live (as a life long insomniac it makes the difference between half decent sleep when I'm really tired and not).
    - closeparen 8y ago
      Modern high rises are almost always steel and concrete, so pretty quiet. Modern mid rises are usually a single concrete story, then wood. A low floor on a high rise is often higher quality and competitively priced with a mid rise.
- mooreds 8y ago
  Or when they turn 60 and discover that a vacation rental and condo is cheaper than maintenance of the big house.
  - Spooky23 8y ago
    Absolutely. In my area older folks are leaving 30-40 year old suburban tract homes that needs roofs, hvac, etc and moving to condos in or near the city.
    - ip26 8y ago
      Failing to save for predictable maintenance is a scourge on humanity...
      - war1025 8y ago
        Based on conversations with some of my neighbors, it's less accidentally forgetting to save for those expenses and more purposely hoping to dump the place on someone else before it becomes their problem.
      - Spooky23 8y ago
        Agreed, but the scale-up of banks and spreading of risk that makes credit easy to get makes poor maintenance easy to get away with. You can still get a loan on a collapsed hovel!
scarface74 8y ago
I like not having a front/back yard to maintain (I don't enjoy gardening). I don’t either. That’s what lawn service is for. And that's not to mention the many benefits of living in a higher-density neighborhood, which would be impossible in a place full of semi-/fully-detached houses. I moved from house to apartment for 3 years and hated every minute of it. Noisy neighbors, no garage, bad WiFi with everyone having the same apartment mandated internet and cable package, and a gym with unmaintained equipment. Not to mention rent that went up from $1200 to $1600 within three years. Now the same place is $2000 just 3 years later.
- derekp7 8y ago
  Unfortunately owning a home doesn't insulate you from that. My homeowners insurance jumped from about 350/year to about 1400/year during the last recession. And property taxes jumped from 5K to nearly 9K. This is over a 10 year period.
  - yourduskquibble 8y ago
    Just curious do you love in a "blue state"... Supporting the pensions of the gym teacher who retired at 55 drawing $100k+ for the rest of his/her life?
  - scarface74 8y ago
    If property taxes and homeowners insurance jumped for your home by that much, they probably also jumped for the owners of the rental property you would have alternatively been staying in. The landlord would have passed that cost on to thier tenants. So you still have to worry about that and them raising the rent at the drop of a dime.
    - ACow_Adonis 8y ago
      Not necessarily. One basis for rates and taxes can be the proportion of an individual's unimproved land value. Typically apartment dwellers end up paying far less rates and taxes under such a scheme. (ignoring any question of economics such as rent-demand elasticity and whether landlords can just pass the full cost of any tax increase onto tennants). I also know that my comparative insurance is less because I live off the ground floor in an apartment block with restricted/limited access and hard concrete construction. Any desire to tax non-dense/dense properties at similar or different rates is a particular policy choice, and on a cost ratio basis the denser living choice often ends up being cheaper because resources can be pooled and shared.
coldtea 8y ago
>In the end it's up to personal preference, and you're certainly welcome to prefer a house. But don't assume that everyone has the same preference as you. Likewise, don't assume that preferences are equally distributed among options. In most demographics, and especially after having a family, the "apartment lifestyle" thing is in the minority.

esotericn 8y ago

Repeating my post from below: I'm obviously simplifying. Luxury apartments downtown are different to the sort of monstrosities you see in suburbs. Moving from a family home in a suburb into the city =/= moving from a family home into a block of flats on the same street. The latter is what I am calling a 'strict downgrade'.

Spooky23 8y ago

People tend to revisit these preferences when their oldest turns 4, and they discover the unfortunate shitshow that is urban schools.

screye 8y ago
I feel that often the complaints associated with loving in urban apartments has less to do with the apartments themselves, and more societal trends that have arisen out of rich people sticking to suburbs over multiple generations. Schools are the #1 example of this. Badly maintained rental apartments and higher crime rates are some other examples of the same.
- noir_lord 8y ago
  > Badly maintained rental apartments Not just badly maintained but badly designed as well. I've live in flats (apartments) since 2003 and off the two I actually liked there was a single distinguishing characteristic - They where quiet. One was a department store that was converted so the floors where thick rebar concrete and the current one was just well designed in terms of noise. Noise is an absolute determining factor on where I choose to live (as a life long insomniac it makes the difference between half decent sleep when I'm really tired and not).
  - closeparen 8y ago
    Modern high rises are almost always steel and concrete, so pretty quiet. Modern mid rises are usually a single concrete story, then wood. A low floor on a high rise is often higher quality and competitively priced with a mid rise.
mooreds 8y ago
Or when they turn 60 and discover that a vacation rental and condo is cheaper than maintenance of the big house.
- Spooky23 8y ago
  Absolutely. In my area older folks are leaving 30-40 year old suburban tract homes that needs roofs, hvac, etc and moving to condos in or near the city.
  - ip26 8y ago
    Failing to save for predictable maintenance is a scourge on humanity...
    - war1025 8y ago
      Based on conversations with some of my neighbors, it's less accidentally forgetting to save for those expenses and more purposely hoping to dump the place on someone else before it becomes their problem.
    - Spooky23 8y ago
      Agreed, but the scale-up of banks and spreading of risk that makes credit easy to get makes poor maintenance easy to get away with. You can still get a loan on a collapsed hovel!

scarface74 8y ago

I like not having a front/back yard to maintain (I don't enjoy gardening). I don’t either. That’s what lawn service is for. And that's not to mention the many benefits of living in a higher-density neighborhood, which would be impossible in a place full of semi-/fully-detached houses. I moved from house to apartment for 3 years and hated every minute of it. Noisy neighbors, no garage, bad WiFi with everyone having the same apartment mandated internet and cable package, and a gym with unmaintained equipment. Not to mention rent that went up from $1200 to $1600 within three years. Now the same place is $2000 just 3 years later.

derekp7 8y ago
Unfortunately owning a home doesn't insulate you from that. My homeowners insurance jumped from about 350/year to about 1400/year during the last recession. And property taxes jumped from 5K to nearly 9K. This is over a 10 year period.
- yourduskquibble 8y ago
  Just curious do you love in a "blue state"... Supporting the pensions of the gym teacher who retired at 55 drawing $100k+ for the rest of his/her life?
- scarface74 8y ago
  If property taxes and homeowners insurance jumped for your home by that much, they probably also jumped for the owners of the rental property you would have alternatively been staying in. The landlord would have passed that cost on to thier tenants. So you still have to worry about that and them raising the rent at the drop of a dime.
  - ACow_Adonis 8y ago
    Not necessarily. One basis for rates and taxes can be the proportion of an individual's unimproved land value. Typically apartment dwellers end up paying far less rates and taxes under such a scheme. (ignoring any question of economics such as rent-demand elasticity and whether landlords can just pass the full cost of any tax increase onto tennants). I also know that my comparative insurance is less because I live off the ground floor in an apartment block with restricted/limited access and hard concrete construction. Any desire to tax non-dense/dense properties at similar or different rates is a particular policy choice, and on a cost ratio basis the denser living choice often ends up being cheaper because resources can be pooled and shared.

coldtea 8y ago

>In the end it's up to personal preference, and you're certainly welcome to prefer a house. But don't assume that everyone has the same preference as you. Likewise, don't assume that preferences are equally distributed among options. In most demographics, and especially after having a family, the "apartment lifestyle" thing is in the minority.