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Lightning + Watchtowers Its coming For some of the other things, best practices prevent much of that. I could imagine a common practice where base layer trans

Lightning + Watchtowers Its coming For some of the other things, best practices prevent much of that. I could imagine a common practice where base layer transactions to open a channel use a joint account that requires X of Y signatures, where X-n keys are yours, and the remainder being a friend or actual intermediary business which only facilitates avoiding user error. After the channels are open it having no say in how things are transmitted. I also imagine this being seamless. Each element of a computer's boot sequence were all major stepping stones at one point, and now computers don't even show you the list of things its doing anymore. I see this technology going that way once UX designers figure out how to get paid in this space.

stale2002 8y ago
> Lightning + Watchtowers it's coming Just another 18 month from now and I'm sure it will be finished. I myself need to pay for food right now and I do not have time to wait for a solution that is perpetually years from completion.
- gammateam 8y ago
  Lightning is available now. The 18 months meme was regarding when it wasn't. If you want to perpetuate that criticism, you'll need up to date arguments: Lightning is cumbersome to use and impractical because of the requirement to run a personal full node to connect to AND your device running the payment channel needs to always ben online for the duration of the payment channel. "Watchtowers" solve both of these issues, and they have not proliferated yet. Yes, this isn't about what you need right now, use cash or a financial network using intermediaries. We are operating on different time frames and most forward thinking things we are talking about are on that time frame. Nobody in this movement is perturbed by your astute observation that it isn't available right now, nobody is saying "well pack it up boys, stale2002 can't be accommodated, shows over"
  - stale2002 8y ago
    There is no updating of arguments necessary. The problem in Bitcoin today are the same problem that have existed for years. That problem being that there are too many people focused on esoteric solutions, like watchtowers, 2nd layers, and even 3rd layers, that only developers care about. And not enough people talking to customers or merchants, and building things that make Bitcoin work as an actual currency. Seeing as the whole point of this stuff is to work as a currency, it seems like this should be important. It is a rare few companies, such as BitPay, that are building things like point of sale devices that actually make it possible for consumers to buy things from merchants.
    - gammateam 8y ago
      Bitpay's solution will always have poor UX for merchants while these protocol layer things are not available. Bitpay's solution would have been okay while 0-conf transactions were not replaceable on BTC. But this had capacity limitations that lightning won't. What you are saying would have merit, if thats what was happening on these particular topics. Wallets are totally not built for customers, but thats not one of the things you highlighted.

stale2002 8y ago

> Lightning + Watchtowers it's coming Just another 18 month from now and I'm sure it will be finished. I myself need to pay for food right now and I do not have time to wait for a solution that is perpetually years from completion.

gammateam 8y ago
Lightning is available now. The 18 months meme was regarding when it wasn't. If you want to perpetuate that criticism, you'll need up to date arguments: Lightning is cumbersome to use and impractical because of the requirement to run a personal full node to connect to AND your device running the payment channel needs to always ben online for the duration of the payment channel. "Watchtowers" solve both of these issues, and they have not proliferated yet. Yes, this isn't about what you need right now, use cash or a financial network using intermediaries. We are operating on different time frames and most forward thinking things we are talking about are on that time frame. Nobody in this movement is perturbed by your astute observation that it isn't available right now, nobody is saying "well pack it up boys, stale2002 can't be accommodated, shows over"
- stale2002 8y ago
  There is no updating of arguments necessary. The problem in Bitcoin today are the same problem that have existed for years. That problem being that there are too many people focused on esoteric solutions, like watchtowers, 2nd layers, and even 3rd layers, that only developers care about. And not enough people talking to customers or merchants, and building things that make Bitcoin work as an actual currency. Seeing as the whole point of this stuff is to work as a currency, it seems like this should be important. It is a rare few companies, such as BitPay, that are building things like point of sale devices that actually make it possible for consumers to buy things from merchants.
  - gammateam 8y ago
    Bitpay's solution will always have poor UX for merchants while these protocol layer things are not available. Bitpay's solution would have been okay while 0-conf transactions were not replaceable on BTC. But this had capacity limitations that lightning won't. What you are saying would have merit, if thats what was happening on these particular topics. Wallets are totally not built for customers, but thats not one of the things you highlighted.