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Its a fear that shows up in a common interpretation of Revelation 13:17 And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast,

Its a fear that shows up in a common interpretation of Revelation 13:17 And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name. This is one of the verses in the Bible that tends to drive a lot of the hatred for national ids and removal of cash in the US.

mmirate 8y ago
Granted, but even broken clocks are right twice a day. Just because someone wrote a pre-scientific text which, today, supports antiauthoritarianism ... does not mean that antiauthoritarianism lacks its many other merits. Those people are right to fear national ID and cashlessness; their fear being from Revelations, doesn't necessarily make them religious nutjobs (of the sort whose fears we regularly and usefully ignore). (Not to mention how even some Christians think that Revelation is the writings of a hallucinating madman.)
- gammateam 8y ago
  For an example without religious polarization, you can look at Nostradamus' ramblings They are completely useless until misattributed in hindsight, until further reattributed in hindsight to something slightly more coincidentally relevant. 500 years of this so far.
  - protomyth 8y ago
    Truthfully, my original point was that this was a worry of people before technology made it quite a bit easier to govern. I am unaware of any Nostradamus that talks about restrictions of commerce, nor am I talking about the nature of prophecy of Revelations other than restrictions on commerce seemed to be important enough in the ancient mind to specifically call out.
- protomyth 8y ago
  > Granted, but even broken clocks are right twice a day. I doubt most Christians think the bible is a broken clock > Just because someone wrote a pre-scientific text which, today, supports antiauthoritarianism ... does not mean that antiauthoritarianism lacks its many other merits. Most of our culture and philosophy comes from pre-scientific texts. Authoritarianism didn't need science and the ability to stop certain people from participating in commerce doesn't require computers. > (Not to mention how even some Christians think that Revelation is the writings of a hallucinating madman.) A small number, while other groups have different interpretations of what the text means or how literal it is.
  - mmirate 8y ago
    > I doubt most Christians think the bible is a broken clock Their choice, and I'm sure it must be good for their pretty little stained-glass filter that they keep in-place between their eyes and reality. > Authoritarianism didn't need science and the ability to stop certain people from participating in commerce doesn't require computers. All the more reason to oppose the general centralization and empowerment of authority, on principle, not just on the topic of this HN article. > A small number No doubt, and I feel that my phrasing conveyed that appropriately: "some Christians". > while other groups have different interpretations of what the text means or how literal it is. No doubt of that either; as we all know, Christianity is very diverse in the precise natures of its adherents' fantasies; be they Revelations-enhanced or otherwise. It's still all fantasy, though, which, I suppose, is what really matters in the end. But, my point here in all of this, is that some of the things their Bible says, do happen to be inherently wise, when extracted from the original context. The "Mark of the Beast", I daresay, is one of them. And like any piece of the Bible that is actually of-use, its wisdom is best put into our own words and then the Biblical association discarded lest it cause weakness. * * * * * While I do focus on Christianity specifically, since that is the immediate topic, I should make it clear that I do not discriminate: Religion sucks. All of it. And I pity those who need it, and those who only think they need it. http://harmful.cat-v.org/society/religion/ http://harmful.cat-v.org/society/religion/
    - angry_octet 8y ago
      If you've going to display your disdain for sky fairies on HN, best to pick on a small religion, unpopular with HN readers. Bahá'í perhaps, which preaches mutual love and the inherent value of all religion, yet its adherents are mercilessly persecuted by co-religionists.
      - mmirate 8y ago
        Just because a particular brand of sky-fairy is popular, does not make it any better; on the contrary, the damage that a religion does is correlated positively with the number of its adherents.
petre 8y ago
I'm with the Bible on this one. Same as the other verse that tells never to build your house on sand. It's good advice.
nickpsecurity 8y ago
A local, sandwich shop charges $6.66 for a specific sub after tax if you don't get the full meal. Owner or corporate office probably never thought about it. The locals regularly change the amount, often subtracting, because so many people don't want to pay that specific number. I always try to do some dark, comedy routine the second I see it if it's a new employee in case they're superstitious. At least one looked like the apocalypse was happening before I said, "Nah, I'm just messing with you." The coworkers always get a laugh out of those. Outside that, I've heard mark of the beast from so many people about so many things over the decades that I'm sure it factors into a lot of political decisions where popular vote counts. The wording is kind of catch-all given mark is so ambiguous, it mentions a name, and it has a number. A person can project it on anything.
- protomyth 8y ago
  You can look at how people treat numbers in general. The story of 13 (Triskaidekaphobia) and 4 (Tetraphobia) are pretty interesting. We like to watch the odometer roll over and make words on calculators. I still wish we had all followed the Yuki (base 8), it would have made computing so much easier.

mmirate 8y ago

Granted, but even broken clocks are right twice a day. Just because someone wrote a pre-scientific text which, today, supports antiauthoritarianism ... does not mean that antiauthoritarianism lacks its many other merits. Those people are right to fear national ID and cashlessness; their fear being from Revelations, doesn't necessarily make them religious nutjobs (of the sort whose fears we regularly and usefully ignore). (Not to mention how even some Christians think that Revelation is the writings of a hallucinating madman.)

gammateam 8y ago
For an example without religious polarization, you can look at Nostradamus' ramblings They are completely useless until misattributed in hindsight, until further reattributed in hindsight to something slightly more coincidentally relevant. 500 years of this so far.
- protomyth 8y ago
  Truthfully, my original point was that this was a worry of people before technology made it quite a bit easier to govern. I am unaware of any Nostradamus that talks about restrictions of commerce, nor am I talking about the nature of prophecy of Revelations other than restrictions on commerce seemed to be important enough in the ancient mind to specifically call out.
protomyth 8y ago
> Granted, but even broken clocks are right twice a day. I doubt most Christians think the bible is a broken clock > Just because someone wrote a pre-scientific text which, today, supports antiauthoritarianism ... does not mean that antiauthoritarianism lacks its many other merits. Most of our culture and philosophy comes from pre-scientific texts. Authoritarianism didn't need science and the ability to stop certain people from participating in commerce doesn't require computers. > (Not to mention how even some Christians think that Revelation is the writings of a hallucinating madman.) A small number, while other groups have different interpretations of what the text means or how literal it is.
- mmirate 8y ago
  > I doubt most Christians think the bible is a broken clock Their choice, and I'm sure it must be good for their pretty little stained-glass filter that they keep in-place between their eyes and reality. > Authoritarianism didn't need science and the ability to stop certain people from participating in commerce doesn't require computers. All the more reason to oppose the general centralization and empowerment of authority, on principle, not just on the topic of this HN article. > A small number No doubt, and I feel that my phrasing conveyed that appropriately: "some Christians". > while other groups have different interpretations of what the text means or how literal it is. No doubt of that either; as we all know, Christianity is very diverse in the precise natures of its adherents' fantasies; be they Revelations-enhanced or otherwise. It's still all fantasy, though, which, I suppose, is what really matters in the end. But, my point here in all of this, is that some of the things their Bible says, do happen to be inherently wise, when extracted from the original context. The "Mark of the Beast", I daresay, is one of them. And like any piece of the Bible that is actually of-use, its wisdom is best put into our own words and then the Biblical association discarded lest it cause weakness. * * * * * While I do focus on Christianity specifically, since that is the immediate topic, I should make it clear that I do not discriminate: Religion sucks. All of it. And I pity those who need it, and those who only think they need it. http://harmful.cat-v.org/society/religion/ http://harmful.cat-v.org/society/religion/
  - angry_octet 8y ago
    If you've going to display your disdain for sky fairies on HN, best to pick on a small religion, unpopular with HN readers. Bahá'í perhaps, which preaches mutual love and the inherent value of all religion, yet its adherents are mercilessly persecuted by co-religionists.
    - mmirate 8y ago
      Just because a particular brand of sky-fairy is popular, does not make it any better; on the contrary, the damage that a religion does is correlated positively with the number of its adherents.

petre 8y ago

I'm with the Bible on this one. Same as the other verse that tells never to build your house on sand. It's good advice.

nickpsecurity 8y ago

A local, sandwich shop charges $6.66 for a specific sub after tax if you don't get the full meal. Owner or corporate office probably never thought about it. The locals regularly change the amount, often subtracting, because so many people don't want to pay that specific number. I always try to do some dark, comedy routine the second I see it if it's a new employee in case they're superstitious. At least one looked like the apocalypse was happening before I said, "Nah, I'm just messing with you." The coworkers always get a laugh out of those. Outside that, I've heard mark of the beast from so many people about so many things over the decades that I'm sure it factors into a lot of political decisions where popular vote counts. The wording is kind of catch-all given mark is so ambiguous, it mentions a name, and it has a number. A person can project it on anything.

protomyth 8y ago
You can look at how people treat numbers in general. The story of 13 (Triskaidekaphobia) and 4 (Tetraphobia) are pretty interesting. We like to watch the odometer roll over and make words on calculators. I still wish we had all followed the Yuki (base 8), it would have made computing so much easier.