6 ms·

No, this is totally not how it was. People used to speak quite freely at home (aside from when Stalin was in power, and even then).

Viliam1234 8y ago
You can't speak freely at home when your little children hear you, because there is a risk they will repeat your words in public, which can get you in trouble. It's probably also quite dangerous with teenagers around; they may get a wrong idea about appearing cool to their peers by saying something that can't be say, and then get reported on. First, you need to make sure your children understand the magnitude of danger from repeating what they heard at home. That requires some maturity and intelligence, but more importantly the idea that "there are important truths that you can get punished for saying in a wrong place" is itself one of those important truths that you can get punished for saying in a wrong place, so you either need to approach this very very carefully or take a risk and hope for the best.
- the_grue 8y ago
  Are you talking out of experience or just theorizing? Because I was there. People were telling Gorbachov & Reagan jokes all the time in their kitchens, that was just a normal part of life.
  - Fins 8y ago
    Gorbachev and Reagan, sure. Even Brezhnev and Carter. But by then you'd have to tell particularly strong ones to get sent to a labor camp, unlike under previous regimes.
    - the_grue 8y ago
      Well, I was born in the 80's, so I only witnessed that. However the famous Soviet "kitchen conversations" existed even before that.
      - Fins 8y ago
        Kids these days... I am sure there were kitchen conversations even under Stalin, but to far less extent -- most conversationists ended up in some unpleasant places.
  - Viliam1234 8y ago
    Experience. I was in the role of the teenager. Yes, some jokes were okay, especially the toothless ones. Like, making a joke about being poorer or having worse quality of products than the West was relatively safer than making a joke about party members killing each other or hurting random people. It also depended on who could hear you, and what kind of a job your parents had. The better job, the greater risk of losing your job for saying wrong stuff. Also, "speak quite freely at home" is more than just jokes. I am pretty sure most people would not feel safe discussing The Gulag Archipelago at home.
    - the_grue 8y ago
      Well, I was talking about jokes. I do agree that people were more careful about voicing serious dissent, but then who actually did that? A very small handful of political activists, the rest just never went there, because a) usually their friends and family already agreed with them about politics b) everyone felt powerless to change anything c) everyone was too preoccupied with survival in the tough Soviet reality.
- myth_drannon 8y ago
  I think you read 1984 too many times. What you wrote is a pure fantasy of a mind who grew up in cold era Western propaganda.
  - Fins 8y ago
    It truly boggles the mind when some kids from Berkeley (or Montreal, as the case may be) start telling people who actually lived it that it was all some "cold era Western propaganda" (whatever the hell this is supposed to mean). Will you tell us next that Holocaust is just some Zionist propaganda?
xattt 8y ago
They spoke freely but they still faced consequences. I know of someone who protested against the party in the early 80s in Moscow, only to undergo interrogation by the KGB and jailed for three weeks. Their pet bird died because they simply “disappeared” for that time and no one knew where they went.
- the_grue 8y ago
  Protesting publicly is one thing. Talking in your own kitchen is another. I guess some unlucky people got busted for that, but generally it was safe, as long as no one deliberately ratted you out (which didn't happen much since Stalin died). And even then, circumstances needed to be really hard against you. Also, it obviously matters what it is you're saying. Most people just told jokes about the communist regime and talked about how shitty life was. Nobody cared about that as long as they kept it private.
  - PavlovsCat 8y ago
    You can "speak freely in private" because it's not free speech, which requires a public space. It's like saying "I am allowed to show my face under this bag I am required to carry over my head". Yes, you are, because you're not really showing your face, as long as that bag is in place. And why would they (the KGB) have cared (about jokes)? The venting of steam, instead of letting it build up and affect change, would have to be invented if people didn't do it voluntarily. That kind of self-deprecating humour is all over our media these days, too, we love to bring up important subjects to channel them into harmless stuff, just because we can't pretend it's not there, but also not allow ourselves to actually see it and be serious in its presence.
    - the_grue 8y ago
      It sounds like you're trying to disprove an argument I never made. Let me be clear about this: there was no free speech in the USSR and you couldn't sound criticism publicly. But some assume that the absence of free speech means that everyone is either brainwashed or so terrified they are afraid to speak their minds at home. I just had to point out this is not how it was in the late USSR.
deleted 8y ago
[deleted]

Viliam1234 8y ago

You can't speak freely at home when your little children hear you, because there is a risk they will repeat your words in public, which can get you in trouble. It's probably also quite dangerous with teenagers around; they may get a wrong idea about appearing cool to their peers by saying something that can't be say, and then get reported on. First, you need to make sure your children understand the magnitude of danger from repeating what they heard at home. That requires some maturity and intelligence, but more importantly the idea that "there are important truths that you can get punished for saying in a wrong place" is itself one of those important truths that you can get punished for saying in a wrong place, so you either need to approach this very very carefully or take a risk and hope for the best.

the_grue 8y ago
Are you talking out of experience or just theorizing? Because I was there. People were telling Gorbachov & Reagan jokes all the time in their kitchens, that was just a normal part of life.
- Fins 8y ago
  Gorbachev and Reagan, sure. Even Brezhnev and Carter. But by then you'd have to tell particularly strong ones to get sent to a labor camp, unlike under previous regimes.
  - the_grue 8y ago
    Well, I was born in the 80's, so I only witnessed that. However the famous Soviet "kitchen conversations" existed even before that.
    - Fins 8y ago
      Kids these days... I am sure there were kitchen conversations even under Stalin, but to far less extent -- most conversationists ended up in some unpleasant places.
- Viliam1234 8y ago
  Experience. I was in the role of the teenager. Yes, some jokes were okay, especially the toothless ones. Like, making a joke about being poorer or having worse quality of products than the West was relatively safer than making a joke about party members killing each other or hurting random people. It also depended on who could hear you, and what kind of a job your parents had. The better job, the greater risk of losing your job for saying wrong stuff. Also, "speak quite freely at home" is more than just jokes. I am pretty sure most people would not feel safe discussing The Gulag Archipelago at home.
  - the_grue 8y ago
    Well, I was talking about jokes. I do agree that people were more careful about voicing serious dissent, but then who actually did that? A very small handful of political activists, the rest just never went there, because a) usually their friends and family already agreed with them about politics b) everyone felt powerless to change anything c) everyone was too preoccupied with survival in the tough Soviet reality.
myth_drannon 8y ago
I think you read 1984 too many times. What you wrote is a pure fantasy of a mind who grew up in cold era Western propaganda.
- Fins 8y ago
  It truly boggles the mind when some kids from Berkeley (or Montreal, as the case may be) start telling people who actually lived it that it was all some "cold era Western propaganda" (whatever the hell this is supposed to mean). Will you tell us next that Holocaust is just some Zionist propaganda?

xattt 8y ago

They spoke freely but they still faced consequences. I know of someone who protested against the party in the early 80s in Moscow, only to undergo interrogation by the KGB and jailed for three weeks. Their pet bird died because they simply “disappeared” for that time and no one knew where they went.

the_grue 8y ago
Protesting publicly is one thing. Talking in your own kitchen is another. I guess some unlucky people got busted for that, but generally it was safe, as long as no one deliberately ratted you out (which didn't happen much since Stalin died). And even then, circumstances needed to be really hard against you. Also, it obviously matters what it is you're saying. Most people just told jokes about the communist regime and talked about how shitty life was. Nobody cared about that as long as they kept it private.
- PavlovsCat 8y ago
  You can "speak freely in private" because it's not free speech, which requires a public space. It's like saying "I am allowed to show my face under this bag I am required to carry over my head". Yes, you are, because you're not really showing your face, as long as that bag is in place. And why would they (the KGB) have cared (about jokes)? The venting of steam, instead of letting it build up and affect change, would have to be invented if people didn't do it voluntarily. That kind of self-deprecating humour is all over our media these days, too, we love to bring up important subjects to channel them into harmless stuff, just because we can't pretend it's not there, but also not allow ourselves to actually see it and be serious in its presence.
  - the_grue 8y ago
    It sounds like you're trying to disprove an argument I never made. Let me be clear about this: there was no free speech in the USSR and you couldn't sound criticism publicly. But some assume that the absence of free speech means that everyone is either brainwashed or so terrified they are afraid to speak their minds at home. I just had to point out this is not how it was in the late USSR.

deleted 8y ago

[deleted]