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It’s hard to overstate how important Librem phone is. Currently, it’s pretty much impossible to buy a high end phone that you can actually own. All Android base

It’s hard to overstate how important Librem phone is. Currently, it’s pretty much impossible to buy a high end phone that you can actually own. All Android based phones have their firmware locked and root access disabled. This effectively means that you do not own the device, and you don’t get the final say as to what will be running on it. I’m aware that it’s possible to crack the firmware, but I think that’s completely beside the point. We desperately need an open alternative that puts control back in the hands of the user. I think open computing is of fundamental importance. If we lose the ability to decide what code runs on our devices, we’ll be moving a step closer towards a totalitarian dystopia where the governments and corporations get to decide what’s good for us.

floatboth 8y ago
> crack the firmware In most cases, you don't have to crack anything, you can officially unlock the bootloader and flash your own OS build. Yes, you can't touch the early boot initialization, you're still required to use vendor blobs for using wireless/modem/camera/etc things, but you can control most of the software that matters.
- djsumdog 8y ago
  Yea using adb/oemunlock. Sometimes you have to get a code (like with Sony, you input your IMEI number into their website and get one). I've had one Sony that was unlockable; a condition of the original cell provider. Still, it's bizarre considering you can install Linux on any PC/laptop you buy. The bigger issue of course, is that you can't just install Linux on a phone. They're all random pins soldered to random chips and all use patched to hell Kernels with binary blobs. Linux distros can release images that are designed on boot on x86/x86_64/PPC/Sparc and they'll booth up and install on most of those machines. That's impossible with nearly all Android/ARM devices. PostmarketOS is trying to change that from the other direction, but Librem is a huge step in giving developers embedded hardware that doesn't require carefully modified and patched kernels/bootloaders.
  - ascii_only 8y ago
    >Still, it's bizarre considering you can install Linux on any PC/laptop you buy. It is kinda not true. There are windows 2 in 1 and recent macbooks on which it is almost impossible to install linux.
    - pmalynin 8y ago
      > recent macbooks on which it is almost impossible to install linux That's FUD, and you know it. You can disable secure boot on Mac and boot whatever you want.
      - floatboth 8y ago
        You can boot, but not install, as Linux won't see the internal storage that's controlled by the T2 chip.
        vbezhenar 8y ago
        So Linux need some drivers or it's a fundamental restriction from Apple?
        floatboth 8y ago
        It's probably not impossible to develop a driver?? But it'd involve a lot of reverse engineering.
        cyphar 8y ago
        Drivers won't work. According to my understanding, any unsupported operating system (those which are not signed by Apple -- even Boot Camp doesn't use the Windows UEFI certificate so Linux's shim won't work) cannot access stuff protected by the T2 chip. So it's definitely not a driver problem. And apparently disabling secure boot still doesn't fix the issue -- see the Phronix updates[1]. I only found one article claiming you can get past over all the T2 "security" features[2], but they explicitly say (at the end of the article) that they haven't actually tested booting or installing Linux. [1]: https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=Apple-T2-Blocks-Linux-UEFI https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=Apple-T2... [2]: https://www.imore.com/no-apples-not-locking-you-out-linux-macs-t2-chip https://www.imore.com/no-apples-not-locking-you-out-linux-ma...
- esotericn 8y ago
  If you can't use mainline Linux and/or have no GPU acceleration that's no use at all. It's sort of theoretically useful whilst being practically pointless unless you want to produce your own OS. How do I get into a Linux userland with X11 and a touch driver on my Galaxy Note 8? The answer is pretty much "write it all yourself, quickly before the hardware becomes obsolete". I hope that the librem5 gains traction for that reason alone - producing a critical mass of developers.
  - opencl 8y ago
    You can chroot into a normal ARM distro and run the X11 server directly on Android. Works pretty well unless you need non-ES OpenGL.
    - xnzakg 8y ago
      This still requires running Android, most likely with an old kernel and nonfree blobs.
wilsonnb3 8y ago
It’s pretty easy to buy a high end phone that you can actually own if you don’t use a ridiculously hyperbolic definition of ownership.
StreamBright 8y ago
Without some pretty strong UX like iOS this effort is not worth it. There is great UX in the FOSS world unfortunately.
- philipswood 8y ago
  Priorities sometimes differ :). There is place in the market for reggae and death-metal. You couldn't PAY me to take an iOS device as a main personal phone. (although as a caveat: I might consider owning one to test cross-platform mobile applications)
deleted 8y ago
[deleted]
ShorsHammer 8y ago
> All Android based phones have their firmware locked and root access disabled Xaiomi A1 and A2 come with stock android and official bootloader unlock on the website, takes 10 mins to unlock and install LineageOS. LineageOS root access is an option in the settings.

floatboth 8y ago

> crack the firmware In most cases, you don't have to crack anything, you can officially unlock the bootloader and flash your own OS build. Yes, you can't touch the early boot initialization, you're still required to use vendor blobs for using wireless/modem/camera/etc things, but you can control most of the software that matters.

djsumdog 8y ago
Yea using adb/oemunlock. Sometimes you have to get a code (like with Sony, you input your IMEI number into their website and get one). I've had one Sony that was unlockable; a condition of the original cell provider. Still, it's bizarre considering you can install Linux on any PC/laptop you buy. The bigger issue of course, is that you can't just install Linux on a phone. They're all random pins soldered to random chips and all use patched to hell Kernels with binary blobs. Linux distros can release images that are designed on boot on x86/x86_64/PPC/Sparc and they'll booth up and install on most of those machines. That's impossible with nearly all Android/ARM devices. PostmarketOS is trying to change that from the other direction, but Librem is a huge step in giving developers embedded hardware that doesn't require carefully modified and patched kernels/bootloaders.
- ascii_only 8y ago
  >Still, it's bizarre considering you can install Linux on any PC/laptop you buy. It is kinda not true. There are windows 2 in 1 and recent macbooks on which it is almost impossible to install linux.
  - pmalynin 8y ago
    > recent macbooks on which it is almost impossible to install linux That's FUD, and you know it. You can disable secure boot on Mac and boot whatever you want.
    - floatboth 8y ago
      You can boot, but not install, as Linux won't see the internal storage that's controlled by the T2 chip.
      - vbezhenar 8y ago
        So Linux need some drivers or it's a fundamental restriction from Apple?
        floatboth 8y ago
        It's probably not impossible to develop a driver?? But it'd involve a lot of reverse engineering.
        cyphar 8y ago
        Drivers won't work. According to my understanding, any unsupported operating system (those which are not signed by Apple -- even Boot Camp doesn't use the Windows UEFI certificate so Linux's shim won't work) cannot access stuff protected by the T2 chip. So it's definitely not a driver problem. And apparently disabling secure boot still doesn't fix the issue -- see the Phronix updates[1]. I only found one article claiming you can get past over all the T2 "security" features[2], but they explicitly say (at the end of the article) that they haven't actually tested booting or installing Linux. [1]: https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=Apple-T2-Blocks-Linux-UEFI https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=Apple-T2... [2]: https://www.imore.com/no-apples-not-locking-you-out-linux-macs-t2-chip https://www.imore.com/no-apples-not-locking-you-out-linux-ma...
esotericn 8y ago
If you can't use mainline Linux and/or have no GPU acceleration that's no use at all. It's sort of theoretically useful whilst being practically pointless unless you want to produce your own OS. How do I get into a Linux userland with X11 and a touch driver on my Galaxy Note 8? The answer is pretty much "write it all yourself, quickly before the hardware becomes obsolete". I hope that the librem5 gains traction for that reason alone - producing a critical mass of developers.
- opencl 8y ago
  You can chroot into a normal ARM distro and run the X11 server directly on Android. Works pretty well unless you need non-ES OpenGL.
  - xnzakg 8y ago
    This still requires running Android, most likely with an old kernel and nonfree blobs.

wilsonnb3 8y ago

It’s pretty easy to buy a high end phone that you can actually own if you don’t use a ridiculously hyperbolic definition of ownership.

StreamBright 8y ago

Without some pretty strong UX like iOS this effort is not worth it. There is great UX in the FOSS world unfortunately.

philipswood 8y ago
Priorities sometimes differ :). There is place in the market for reggae and death-metal. You couldn't PAY me to take an iOS device as a main personal phone. (although as a caveat: I might consider owning one to test cross-platform mobile applications)

deleted 8y ago

[deleted]

ShorsHammer 8y ago

> All Android based phones have their firmware locked and root access disabled Xaiomi A1 and A2 come with stock android and official bootloader unlock on the website, takes 10 mins to unlock and install LineageOS. LineageOS root access is an option in the settings.