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You can ask the questions about whether it should or should not enable crime, but the question is useless, because it doesn't address whether it can or cannot e

You can ask the questions about whether it should or should not enable crime, but the question is useless, because it doesn't address whether it can or cannot enable crime. When you ask this question, you come to the conclusion that it can enable crime. So then you might argue that if it can enable crime, we must do something about it. Admirable ideas, but you then need to ask the question, can we do anything about it? When you ask this, you come to the conclusion that you can't do anything about it. Bitcoin happened. Nobody is in control. It does not care about your opinion. So the real question we should be asking, is, if Bitcoin can enable crime, and we are unable to prevent the use of Bitcoin, how must our law enforcement adapt to this new world? Then we can stop wasting resources on hopelessly trying to adapt the world to suit law enforcement.

jcoffland 8y ago
Rocks enable crime and they are everywhere. We need to do something about this rock problem we have.
dasil003 8y ago
You're fooling yourself if you believe nothing can be done about Bitcoin. If the powers that be want it dead they'll outlaw it, and that's effectively game over for any kind of common transaction system. The reason it hasn't so far is because there are too many rich and powerful speculators involved, but those winds could change in a hurry so I wouldn't get too cocky.
- go_blue_13 8y ago
  Yeah this is wrong. Bitcoin is everywhere, not just in the US, and there's no way in hell going to be a worldwide coordinated crackdown. And as long as people are running nodes, Bitcoin isn't going anywhere.
- sparkie 8y ago
  Bitcoin is borderless. Lets say for example, a government decides to ban all bitcoin/fiat exchanges in their jurisdiction, what will people who want to obtain Bitcoin do? Answer: They will obtain Bitcoin either directly (on the black market, as payment for labour or services), or they will obtain it overseas, where said government has no jurisdiction. In both of these cases, if hidden from the government in question, this is actively harmful to the government because it becomes assets which the government has no ability to levy taxes on. Another problem is that governments which attempt to restrict bitcoin usage will suffer the economic and brain drain which will occur as people move themselves, their businesses and their money overseas to somewhere more friendly to Bitcoin, whose economies will prosper as a result. Also aided by having a stronger monetary base which can't be devalued by central bankers. Governments don't want to say "we're going to make Bitcoin legal," because they don't yet know how to deal with collecting tax in a world of Bitcoin use. They also don't want to just say "we're going to make it illegal," because they would be doing so at their own peril. Good luck enforcing any prohbition anyway. We've seen how prohibition of alcohol played out in the 1920s. We also know that many drugs, despite being illegal for many decades, are easily obtainable anywhere there is a demand for them, and largely at the loss of the governments banning them, who could've been collecting taxes all along on drugs sold. The main reason cannabis is becoming legal in many places now is because it is hugely profitable, and governments want their slice of the pie.
  - dasil003 8y ago
    All this idealism remains to be proven. If Bitcoin can cross the chasm to be a de-facto transaction method then it might have enough leverage to force governments to capitulate, but we are still very very far from that point, so you shouldn't treat it as a foregone conclusion. I grew up in Brazil during hyper inflation, and I have Argentinian friends now, so I understand what it means to obtain currency overseas or on a black market, and I can assure you it's a huge hassle and not something people want to do unless their local fiat currency has major problems. If governments with strong currencies start moving against bitcoin, transaction volume will decrease, investors will lose confidence, and the value will crash out. This doesn't require a coordinated effort, it just requires a handful of major countries to start seeing things a certain way.

jcoffland 8y ago

Rocks enable crime and they are everywhere. We need to do something about this rock problem we have.

dasil003 8y ago

You're fooling yourself if you believe nothing can be done about Bitcoin. If the powers that be want it dead they'll outlaw it, and that's effectively game over for any kind of common transaction system. The reason it hasn't so far is because there are too many rich and powerful speculators involved, but those winds could change in a hurry so I wouldn't get too cocky.

go_blue_13 8y ago
Yeah this is wrong. Bitcoin is everywhere, not just in the US, and there's no way in hell going to be a worldwide coordinated crackdown. And as long as people are running nodes, Bitcoin isn't going anywhere.
sparkie 8y ago
Bitcoin is borderless. Lets say for example, a government decides to ban all bitcoin/fiat exchanges in their jurisdiction, what will people who want to obtain Bitcoin do? Answer: They will obtain Bitcoin either directly (on the black market, as payment for labour or services), or they will obtain it overseas, where said government has no jurisdiction. In both of these cases, if hidden from the government in question, this is actively harmful to the government because it becomes assets which the government has no ability to levy taxes on. Another problem is that governments which attempt to restrict bitcoin usage will suffer the economic and brain drain which will occur as people move themselves, their businesses and their money overseas to somewhere more friendly to Bitcoin, whose economies will prosper as a result. Also aided by having a stronger monetary base which can't be devalued by central bankers. Governments don't want to say "we're going to make Bitcoin legal," because they don't yet know how to deal with collecting tax in a world of Bitcoin use. They also don't want to just say "we're going to make it illegal," because they would be doing so at their own peril. Good luck enforcing any prohbition anyway. We've seen how prohibition of alcohol played out in the 1920s. We also know that many drugs, despite being illegal for many decades, are easily obtainable anywhere there is a demand for them, and largely at the loss of the governments banning them, who could've been collecting taxes all along on drugs sold. The main reason cannabis is becoming legal in many places now is because it is hugely profitable, and governments want their slice of the pie.
- dasil003 8y ago
  All this idealism remains to be proven. If Bitcoin can cross the chasm to be a de-facto transaction method then it might have enough leverage to force governments to capitulate, but we are still very very far from that point, so you shouldn't treat it as a foregone conclusion. I grew up in Brazil during hyper inflation, and I have Argentinian friends now, so I understand what it means to obtain currency overseas or on a black market, and I can assure you it's a huge hassle and not something people want to do unless their local fiat currency has major problems. If governments with strong currencies start moving against bitcoin, transaction volume will decrease, investors will lose confidence, and the value will crash out. This doesn't require a coordinated effort, it just requires a handful of major countries to start seeing things a certain way.