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"Girls can wear jeans and cut their hair short Wear shirts and boots 'cause it's okay to be a boy But for a boy to look like a girl is degrading 'Cause you thin

"Girls can wear jeans and cut their hair short Wear shirts and boots 'cause it's okay to be a boy But for a boy to look like a girl is degrading 'Cause you think that being a girl is degrading" -- Madonna, "What it feels like for a girl"

deleted 8y ago
[deleted]
nailer 8y ago
The quote is from the film Cement Garden, and Charlotte Gainsborough is the one saying it. It was sampled by Madonna. I've thought about it before. If a woman dislikes a boy who looks like a girl, it's not because she hates her own gender. It's simply because most women prefer a masculine man. She's likely going to give up a huge part of her life to have children, and wanting someone physically capable of protecting her (even of she doesn't need that much protecting) is important. Hence masculine is considered attractive and society values attractive people. If you think this is just someone trying to defend traditional gender roles: I'm a guy who occasionally women's clothing, bakes, spends massive amounts of time in commercial dance classes, has done pole before, and looks great in booty shorts. I'm just being real. Straight women - the vast majority of them - find masculine men attractive and it's not because they hate women.
- matt4077 8y ago
  I don't think being a bit kinky on the side in any way legitimises the tired old biologistic narratives. The problem here isn't just that they (in the best case) mix up what is (was) and what aught to be. It's just that your argument has nothing to do with the question? Because you could just as easily make the same kind of argument for why feminine women are considered more beautiful, in perfect symmetry with your argument. Yet OP was wondering specifically about an asymmetric cultural standard.
  - nailer 8y ago
    You're confusing art and sex, but OK. Well yes, feminine women are considered more beautiful. Many women often wear more masculine clothing to hide their femininity for this exact reason. And yes, in the same way being unmasculine men are not highly valued by women, unfeminine women are not highly valued by men. Too much hair, or a taste in baggy flannel clothing makes a woman feel less loved by society in the same way. The culture is pretty consistent here. You may find biology tired, but it's motivating most life including our own. That the observation is common doesn't invalidate it, any more than the year-zero style narrative about everyone hating women being fashionable invalidate them. The truth exists independently of popularity and fashion.
- DanBC 8y ago
  > film Cement Garden A minor point, but it's a book by Ian McEwan. He also wrote Enduring Love and Atonement (also great films). https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Cement_Garden https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Cement_Garden https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ian_McEwan https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ian_McEwan

deleted 8y ago

[deleted]

nailer 8y ago

The quote is from the film Cement Garden, and Charlotte Gainsborough is the one saying it. It was sampled by Madonna. I've thought about it before. If a woman dislikes a boy who looks like a girl, it's not because she hates her own gender. It's simply because most women prefer a masculine man. She's likely going to give up a huge part of her life to have children, and wanting someone physically capable of protecting her (even of she doesn't need that much protecting) is important. Hence masculine is considered attractive and society values attractive people. If you think this is just someone trying to defend traditional gender roles: I'm a guy who occasionally women's clothing, bakes, spends massive amounts of time in commercial dance classes, has done pole before, and looks great in booty shorts. I'm just being real. Straight women - the vast majority of them - find masculine men attractive and it's not because they hate women.

matt4077 8y ago
I don't think being a bit kinky on the side in any way legitimises the tired old biologistic narratives. The problem here isn't just that they (in the best case) mix up what is (was) and what aught to be. It's just that your argument has nothing to do with the question? Because you could just as easily make the same kind of argument for why feminine women are considered more beautiful, in perfect symmetry with your argument. Yet OP was wondering specifically about an asymmetric cultural standard.
- nailer 8y ago
  You're confusing art and sex, but OK. Well yes, feminine women are considered more beautiful. Many women often wear more masculine clothing to hide their femininity for this exact reason. And yes, in the same way being unmasculine men are not highly valued by women, unfeminine women are not highly valued by men. Too much hair, or a taste in baggy flannel clothing makes a woman feel less loved by society in the same way. The culture is pretty consistent here. You may find biology tired, but it's motivating most life including our own. That the observation is common doesn't invalidate it, any more than the year-zero style narrative about everyone hating women being fashionable invalidate them. The truth exists independently of popularity and fashion.
DanBC 8y ago
> film Cement Garden A minor point, but it's a book by Ian McEwan. He also wrote Enduring Love and Atonement (also great films). https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Cement_Garden https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Cement_Garden https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ian_McEwan https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ian_McEwan