6 ms·

What about just stop buying those things? Seriously if I'm buying a laptop one day and I'm finding out that there's no power cable in the box, I just bring it

What about just stop buying those things? Seriously if I'm buying a laptop one day and I'm finding out that there's no power cable in the box, I just bring it back and said that they made a mistake and forgot something. They are just trying to press any last dollar from their customers, that's it. When you were buying an iPod a couple of years ago you had the AC adapter, USB/FireWire cable (and long ones!), sometime some extra accessories (pocket holder for the iPod Mini). All those small extras were really adding a little plus to the experience. Today you are just buying an expensive laptop, that you have to bring back to the Apple Store yourself (if you have one close by) if you have any issue. They doesn't cover some reparation costs that any other company would do. They are killing the 3rd party-reparation market. Also knowing that those devices are more and more fragile (seriously that keyboard on the latest MacBook). Just stop buying those devices.

coldtea 8y ago
>Seriously if I'm buying a laptop one day and I'm finding out that there's no power cable in the box, I just bring it back and said that they made a mistake and forgot something. There is a power cable, just not a long extension that also used to be. >What about just stop buying those things? What about we still want them, and we don't want to buy and suffer a subpar (for our criteria) alternative just to get them to be more generous with their profit margins...
- deleted 8y ago
  [deleted]
- cannonedhamster 8y ago
  The only way that you matter to them is how much you bring to their bottom line. This isn't the Steve Jobs era where you have a sole visionary crafting something of value. This is a run of the mill hardware company charging luxury prices for above average hardware in the best of cases and a ton of vendor lock in.
simonh 8y ago
I bought my 27” iMac 4 years ago, it’s out of all it’s warranties but when the hard drive failed a few months ago they waived the cost of replacing it. They scraped charging for MacOS upgrades years ago. I had some system performance problems a while back and their phone support talked to me immediately and helped me through the troubleshooting process very clearly, again after I was out of warranty. No charge. ICloud is a bit expensive so I don’t use it, but there are plenty of alternatives. I use Dropbox and Google Drive. I can see the convenience being worth it for some people. Let the market decide. Apple gear is pricey, but I’ve never really felt nickel and dimed. I know some people have bad experiences, but for me once I’ve bought their stuff I’ve got excellent and quite generous after sales support.
- 706f6f70 8y ago
  This sums it up. Apple has built up a lot of good will over the last decade or so. It will take a while for current Apple to burn through it.
  - chewz 8y ago
    It is quite rational for current management of Apple to monetize this goodwill, maximize share price and their bonuses because who cares about tomorrow? Or actually insider's behavior of this kind is a a leading indicator of what the future may bring.
  - simonh 8y ago
    The hard disk was a few weeks ago and the support call just last year. Pretty sure they still do that. Also they’re pushing hard on this device longevity thing, as being an environmental as well as customer satisfaction issue. Then there’s the dramatic improvement in performance in iOS 12 for older devices. They’re not perfect sure. The Touch Bar is a bit meh, the new style keyboards had issues, but these were misjudgements not deliberately user hostile moves. In fact they spent big developing those things.
  - onetimemanytime 8y ago
    So they must follow a "Get Right Up To The Creepy Line And Not Cross It" strategy. They'll cross as sales of iPhones drop. (I have a 6 year PC, works perfectly fine. )
kalleboo 8y ago
> All those small extras were really adding a little plus to the experience I still get these kinds of extras when I buy cheap stuff from China (pouches, microfiber wipes, cables, USB chargers), and they all end up in a box never used and eventually thrown out. I already have 4-port 2.4A chargers everywhere I need a charger, I already have a million USB cables since they came with everything else I bought. At this point it's all just redundant waste.
gst 8y ago
Given that most newer laptops (and phones) support charging via the same USB-PD standard (via USB-C) I don't see the reason for including yet another power adapter in the box when the average user probably already has enough of them at home. I charge all my laptops (Macbook Pro and a Thinkpad) and my phone (Pixel XL) via the same Apple USB-C charger. I'd rather not have yet-another-charger that I'm not going to use included in the box of my next laptop/phone.
- dEnigma 8y ago
  They could just use the iPhone's USB-C charger for their MacBook. Oh wait.
- llampx 8y ago
  I'm the opposite. Chargers have a usable life after which they stop working, and I'd rather not lose the free charger that comes with a new device I buy just so I can have the privilege of paying $$ for a new one in case my older one breaks. Also if you are selling your computer or giving it to someone else, are you expecting them to buy a new charger with it?
pzo 8y ago
What if you are an iOS developer? You have no choice but pay or abandon all your experience you gather for years developing iOS apps and slowly start specializing in android. Maybe that's the way...one of my dev friend bought PC and focus now only on Android.
sfilargi 8y ago
For mobile phones there is only Apple or some kind of Android, i.e. Google. I’d rather pay $1500 for a phone than have Google in my life again.
bborud 8y ago
> Just stop buying those devices. It isn't about the devices. It is about ecosystems. Choosing a different device is about choosing a different ecosystem. Be it a phone, a laptop or a desktop computer. We can pretend that it is just a matter of choosing a different vendor. But that would not usefully describe reality. And Apple knows this, which is why they feel emboldened to milk their customers.
- craftyguy 8y ago
  > It is about ecosystems Just stop supporting those 'ecosystems'.
  - stouset 8y ago
    Right, I’ll just switch to the alternate ecosystem run by the guys who explicitly monitor every aspect of my life in order to target ads. Staying with Apple products is an easy decision. Less easy than it used to be, but still easy.
    - craftyguy 8y ago
      There are other 'ecosystems', but hey if you want to limit yourself to two crappy choices then go right ahead.
      - stouset 8y ago
        Ah yes, how could I forget about the coveted “doesn’t actually meet my needs” set of ecosystems?
        craftyguy 8y ago
        Yea, because I need to be nickel/dimed, or spied on for revenue.
        bborud 8y ago

coldtea 8y ago

>Seriously if I'm buying a laptop one day and I'm finding out that there's no power cable in the box, I just bring it back and said that they made a mistake and forgot something. There is a power cable, just not a long extension that also used to be. >What about just stop buying those things? What about we still want them, and we don't want to buy and suffer a subpar (for our criteria) alternative just to get them to be more generous with their profit margins...

deleted 8y ago
[deleted]
cannonedhamster 8y ago
The only way that you matter to them is how much you bring to their bottom line. This isn't the Steve Jobs era where you have a sole visionary crafting something of value. This is a run of the mill hardware company charging luxury prices for above average hardware in the best of cases and a ton of vendor lock in.

simonh 8y ago

I bought my 27” iMac 4 years ago, it’s out of all it’s warranties but when the hard drive failed a few months ago they waived the cost of replacing it. They scraped charging for MacOS upgrades years ago. I had some system performance problems a while back and their phone support talked to me immediately and helped me through the troubleshooting process very clearly, again after I was out of warranty. No charge. ICloud is a bit expensive so I don’t use it, but there are plenty of alternatives. I use Dropbox and Google Drive. I can see the convenience being worth it for some people. Let the market decide. Apple gear is pricey, but I’ve never really felt nickel and dimed. I know some people have bad experiences, but for me once I’ve bought their stuff I’ve got excellent and quite generous after sales support.

706f6f70 8y ago
This sums it up. Apple has built up a lot of good will over the last decade or so. It will take a while for current Apple to burn through it.
- chewz 8y ago
  It is quite rational for current management of Apple to monetize this goodwill, maximize share price and their bonuses because who cares about tomorrow? Or actually insider's behavior of this kind is a a leading indicator of what the future may bring.
- simonh 8y ago
  The hard disk was a few weeks ago and the support call just last year. Pretty sure they still do that. Also they’re pushing hard on this device longevity thing, as being an environmental as well as customer satisfaction issue. Then there’s the dramatic improvement in performance in iOS 12 for older devices. They’re not perfect sure. The Touch Bar is a bit meh, the new style keyboards had issues, but these were misjudgements not deliberately user hostile moves. In fact they spent big developing those things.
- onetimemanytime 8y ago
  So they must follow a "Get Right Up To The Creepy Line And Not Cross It" strategy. They'll cross as sales of iPhones drop. (I have a 6 year PC, works perfectly fine. )

kalleboo 8y ago

> All those small extras were really adding a little plus to the experience I still get these kinds of extras when I buy cheap stuff from China (pouches, microfiber wipes, cables, USB chargers), and they all end up in a box never used and eventually thrown out. I already have 4-port 2.4A chargers everywhere I need a charger, I already have a million USB cables since they came with everything else I bought. At this point it's all just redundant waste.

gst 8y ago

Given that most newer laptops (and phones) support charging via the same USB-PD standard (via USB-C) I don't see the reason for including yet another power adapter in the box when the average user probably already has enough of them at home. I charge all my laptops (Macbook Pro and a Thinkpad) and my phone (Pixel XL) via the same Apple USB-C charger. I'd rather not have yet-another-charger that I'm not going to use included in the box of my next laptop/phone.

dEnigma 8y ago
They could just use the iPhone's USB-C charger for their MacBook. Oh wait.
llampx 8y ago
I'm the opposite. Chargers have a usable life after which they stop working, and I'd rather not lose the free charger that comes with a new device I buy just so I can have the privilege of paying $$ for a new one in case my older one breaks. Also if you are selling your computer or giving it to someone else, are you expecting them to buy a new charger with it?

pzo 8y ago

What if you are an iOS developer? You have no choice but pay or abandon all your experience you gather for years developing iOS apps and slowly start specializing in android. Maybe that's the way...one of my dev friend bought PC and focus now only on Android.

sfilargi 8y ago

For mobile phones there is only Apple or some kind of Android, i.e. Google. I’d rather pay $1500 for a phone than have Google in my life again.

bborud 8y ago

> Just stop buying those devices. It isn't about the devices. It is about ecosystems. Choosing a different device is about choosing a different ecosystem. Be it a phone, a laptop or a desktop computer. We can pretend that it is just a matter of choosing a different vendor. But that would not usefully describe reality. And Apple knows this, which is why they feel emboldened to milk their customers.

craftyguy 8y ago
> It is about ecosystems Just stop supporting those 'ecosystems'.
- stouset 8y ago
  Right, I’ll just switch to the alternate ecosystem run by the guys who explicitly monitor every aspect of my life in order to target ads. Staying with Apple products is an easy decision. Less easy than it used to be, but still easy.
  - craftyguy 8y ago
    There are other 'ecosystems', but hey if you want to limit yourself to two crappy choices then go right ahead.
    - stouset 8y ago
      Ah yes, how could I forget about the coveted “doesn’t actually meet my needs” set of ecosystems?
      - craftyguy 8y ago
        Yea, because I need to be nickel/dimed, or spied on for revenue.
        bborud 8y ago