3 ms·

Oh, they are. On the other hand, maybe, if you keep the device long enough, it's not too bad. Here's my present life. I bought a System76 laptop about this tim

Oh, they are. On the other hand, maybe, if you keep the device long enough, it's not too bad. Here's my present life. I bought a System76 laptop about this time last year. I wanted to get away from Mac OS since Eclipse is terrible on it (shortcut-wise). I prefer Linux, as long as it just works. System76 offers that. Now the System76 battery is down to 90% of life after moderate use. My Late 2013 MBP is down to its 80% life after 4 year, the battery swells a bit, but still stays on longer and charges quicker than the System76. Maybe on the whole the price is valid.

ploggingdev 8y ago
Can you give us a mini review of the system76 laptop that you have? How's the build quality, battery life, after sales support etc.
- virmundi 8y ago
  Overall, I'm happy with the purchase. As I get more employees, I'd probably look at System76 first. I appreciate their US based manufacturing goal. I purchased the Gazelle. It's mid-level. It's a 7th gen i7. It has 32 GB of RAM. Runs Ubuntu 18.04. Has 512 GB nvme ssd. The video card is an integrated Intel. This is perfectly setup for running 5-10 docker instances locally, VS Code, Android Studio, and other tools all at once. I never swap, even with Chrome. C++ compile times are acceptable. Go compiles instantaneously. I got all this for $1600, rounding up. Good quality for the money. Build-wise, I dislike a few things. The plastic shell feels cheap. There are minor creaks as I lift and carry it around one handed by the corner. The keyboard has a number pad, which I find annoying. Linux in general is terrible about turning the num lock on. Some apps will have it on. Other won't. This makes the Home and End buttons (accessed by my pinky) unstable: will I get 0 or got the end of the line? For a 15" notebook, there should be no pad. It should work like the MBP. It does have a backlight. The screen is good. There are no dead pixels (unlike the MBP that had them since day 1 but not in great enough number to get a replacement). It's not 4k. Rather it's good old fashion 1080p. Battery life is an interesting topic. Ubuntu is not geared for great battery life. XFCE is definitely not. As a result I really only get about 4 hours. In its day, the MBP got about 6 hours. My problem is the battery decayed quickly with the System76. I don't think, and I could be wrong, that the battery should be at 90% in one year. As to support, they are a little slow to respond. I also think they have an odd process. As far as I can tell, I don't get emails about tickets. I have to manually login and check the status. That's odd. Another oddity is that I can't figure out how to close tickets. I asked a question about the fan. They answered in a reasonable period. The ticket is still open. There is not button, as far as I can see, that allows me to complete/close the issue. Do notice the price tag. A similar MBP is about $3k. Sure, it has a better graphics card, but it's a linux machine. Gaming is not my priority. This price includes user-replaceable parts. I can buy a new batter without going back to System75. I can replace the SSD without going back to System76. All the parts are standard (I doubt I can add more RAM). If I got a more powerful video card, I could do all of this and save $1k vs MBP. As a quick aside, I'd love to see System76 move the mouse pad to the top of the keyboard. I don't think most people need a huge pad. A smaller pad at the top would prevent the palm from hitting it, which is a problem in Linux. So if there are any System76 reps reading this, give it a shot.
chadlavi 8y ago
I've only used apple laptops since I was in high school, starting with the first release of OS X in 2001; they're long-lived enough that I've actually only owned 3 of them in that whole 17 year span. an iBook, a Powerbook, and I'm still currently using a 2012 Macbook Air. I wince every time I buy one (with 5+ years between purchases, the ASP is quite a bit higher each time), but the longevity of the devices does really soothe the sting of the price tag. Then again I think they're sort of on to us; I have always believed that the best thing to do, since the device will last a while, is to max out every spec that you can't change yourself later, like ram. These days, though, every spec is something you can't change yourself later; you end up having to take their overpriced upsell on every item if you want a competent machine. It's a real slap in the face that they charge you $400 over the base price just to get a reasonably sized ssd for example (500gb vs the base 128). 500gb ssds compatible with the older macs cost about $99. I don't think I'm getting 4x the value out of having no choice about it, but they know they can get away with such outrageous prices because we don't really have a choice about it.
- OJFord 8y ago
  > the longevity of the devices does really soothe the sting of the price tag. Or does the price tag make you eek out every last fl.oz. of longevity? Even if a <whatever> with Linux on it wouldn't last 6 years, you could probably get the same hardware for half the price and replace every 3; you'd have a time-relative higher spec laptop for more of the time as a result. e.g. my phone cost £60 2 years ago, at the time was essentially equivalent to a 2 year old flagship, but new. I should probably replace it soon, but at the same amortised cost, an iPhone would've had to have lasted me longer than they've existed. (And the current ones are more than twice as expensive, which wouldn't bode well for its replacement!)
  - chadlavi 8y ago
    It's definitely true that there are cheaper devices out there, and it's not hard to get a better price per annum effective cost; I'm not saying macs are the cheapest thing out there, and I'm not maximizing for effective annual price. What I'm saying is: I want the mac, specifically. And the fact that I know I can trust it to last 5+ years makes me less concerned about the overall premium price they charge for it.

ploggingdev 8y ago

Can you give us a mini review of the system76 laptop that you have? How's the build quality, battery life, after sales support etc.

virmundi 8y ago
Overall, I'm happy with the purchase. As I get more employees, I'd probably look at System76 first. I appreciate their US based manufacturing goal. I purchased the Gazelle. It's mid-level. It's a 7th gen i7. It has 32 GB of RAM. Runs Ubuntu 18.04. Has 512 GB nvme ssd. The video card is an integrated Intel. This is perfectly setup for running 5-10 docker instances locally, VS Code, Android Studio, and other tools all at once. I never swap, even with Chrome. C++ compile times are acceptable. Go compiles instantaneously. I got all this for $1600, rounding up. Good quality for the money. Build-wise, I dislike a few things. The plastic shell feels cheap. There are minor creaks as I lift and carry it around one handed by the corner. The keyboard has a number pad, which I find annoying. Linux in general is terrible about turning the num lock on. Some apps will have it on. Other won't. This makes the Home and End buttons (accessed by my pinky) unstable: will I get 0 or got the end of the line? For a 15" notebook, there should be no pad. It should work like the MBP. It does have a backlight. The screen is good. There are no dead pixels (unlike the MBP that had them since day 1 but not in great enough number to get a replacement). It's not 4k. Rather it's good old fashion 1080p. Battery life is an interesting topic. Ubuntu is not geared for great battery life. XFCE is definitely not. As a result I really only get about 4 hours. In its day, the MBP got about 6 hours. My problem is the battery decayed quickly with the System76. I don't think, and I could be wrong, that the battery should be at 90% in one year. As to support, they are a little slow to respond. I also think they have an odd process. As far as I can tell, I don't get emails about tickets. I have to manually login and check the status. That's odd. Another oddity is that I can't figure out how to close tickets. I asked a question about the fan. They answered in a reasonable period. The ticket is still open. There is not button, as far as I can see, that allows me to complete/close the issue. Do notice the price tag. A similar MBP is about $3k. Sure, it has a better graphics card, but it's a linux machine. Gaming is not my priority. This price includes user-replaceable parts. I can buy a new batter without going back to System75. I can replace the SSD without going back to System76. All the parts are standard (I doubt I can add more RAM). If I got a more powerful video card, I could do all of this and save $1k vs MBP. As a quick aside, I'd love to see System76 move the mouse pad to the top of the keyboard. I don't think most people need a huge pad. A smaller pad at the top would prevent the palm from hitting it, which is a problem in Linux. So if there are any System76 reps reading this, give it a shot.

chadlavi 8y ago

I've only used apple laptops since I was in high school, starting with the first release of OS X in 2001; they're long-lived enough that I've actually only owned 3 of them in that whole 17 year span. an iBook, a Powerbook, and I'm still currently using a 2012 Macbook Air. I wince every time I buy one (with 5+ years between purchases, the ASP is quite a bit higher each time), but the longevity of the devices does really soothe the sting of the price tag. Then again I think they're sort of on to us; I have always believed that the best thing to do, since the device will last a while, is to max out every spec that you can't change yourself later, like ram. These days, though, every spec is something you can't change yourself later; you end up having to take their overpriced upsell on every item if you want a competent machine. It's a real slap in the face that they charge you $400 over the base price just to get a reasonably sized ssd for example (500gb vs the base 128). 500gb ssds compatible with the older macs cost about $99. I don't think I'm getting 4x the value out of having no choice about it, but they know they can get away with such outrageous prices because we don't really have a choice about it.

OJFord 8y ago
> the longevity of the devices does really soothe the sting of the price tag. Or does the price tag make you eek out every last fl.oz. of longevity? Even if a <whatever> with Linux on it wouldn't last 6 years, you could probably get the same hardware for half the price and replace every 3; you'd have a time-relative higher spec laptop for more of the time as a result. e.g. my phone cost £60 2 years ago, at the time was essentially equivalent to a 2 year old flagship, but new. I should probably replace it soon, but at the same amortised cost, an iPhone would've had to have lasted me longer than they've existed. (And the current ones are more than twice as expensive, which wouldn't bode well for its replacement!)
- chadlavi 8y ago
  It's definitely true that there are cheaper devices out there, and it's not hard to get a better price per annum effective cost; I'm not saying macs are the cheapest thing out there, and I'm not maximizing for effective annual price. What I'm saying is: I want the mac, specifically. And the fact that I know I can trust it to last 5+ years makes me less concerned about the overall premium price they charge for it.