4 ms·

You can try this guy for proof: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C67Lh4LE5LY https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C67Lh4LE5LY Though if you already have confirmation

by ex3xu 8y ago

You can try this guy for proof: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C67Lh4LE5LY https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C67Lh4LE5LY Though if you already have confirmation bias that anyone who complains of a large company of shady behavior is a crazy nut, maybe this conversation chain is simply a waste of time. Without access to Yelp internals, it's always possible to just write it off as hearsay. Especially when, if you read my post, the courts have ruled that this behavior is not racketeering, even if it passes the duck test for extortion in my view. The logical explanation offered in the video is that the salespeople themselves are the ones leaving the reviews, not sanctioned by Yelp higher ups. I worked a year doing web development and SEO for an agency that specialized in small local businesses, and enough of my clients had had similar experiences with the "Not Recommended" review algorithm after receiving harassing telemarketing calls from Yelp that I just assume that there's something shady going on. I honestly just think their business model is structured poorly. Too many perverse incentives involved. I won't be sad to see them go.

1024core 8y ago
> Though if you already have confirmation bias You don't have to throw such claims around. If anything, they further weaken your case. I watched the first couple of minutes of the video you posted. Even if we take that guy's word for it, you're talking about ONE salesperson. One bad actor. That's it. Which company doesn't have asshole sales people? You are making a stronger claim: that Yelp itself is a bad actor. That, my friend, requires a much higher bar for proof. Look, as I mentioned earlier, I used to work on building ranking algorithms for search engines (no, not Google). In the early days of the Internet (i.e, 15 years ago), there were lots of 3rd party people pulling off stunts like this salesperson. You can call any business today, and try to get protection money (on Yelp) off of them. That doesn't make you a Yelp employee!
- ex3xu 8y ago
  You're right, I apologize for implying the presence confirmation bias and I don't mean it as a personal attack. I just wanted to express that when you immediately discredit the anecdotal experience of others in favor of your own anecdotal experience, it may be a sign of confirmation bias. But I guess that kind of implication comes with connotations that I didn't intend. Basically, I want to draw your attention to the fact that the salesperson in that video did work for Yelp at the time. Doesn't that on its own distinguish the behavior that's happening at yelp with your experience with third party scammers? Maybe the Wells Fargo scandal from a few years back can be a reference here. If a company is structured in a way where salespeople are incentivized to misbehave for their own personal interest, shouldn't that company be held accountable? Anyway, you're right that I'm wrong to claim with certainty that Yelp is a bad actor. I don't have proof beyond dealing with 5 star reviews for clients locked behind Yelp's "Not recommended". But any company with a monetization scheme that in practice boils down to cold calling and harrassing small businesses, is a company against which I have no problem jumping on any bandwagon that comes my way.
notSupplied 8y ago
Just a random point of feedback, but you sound more like the one carrying confirmation bias here. But really, throwing that phrase around in an internet debate is pretty meaningless rhetoric. It takes YEARS of working with someone before I feel like I understand that person's biases well enough to accuse them of such a thing.
- ex3xu 8y ago
  You're right. Maybe epistemic closure is a better term. And maybe I need to take some time to evaluate the evidence in context of my own biases before I make baseless accusations. You have to understand that I've internalized articles over a number of years about class action lawsuits against yelp as well as my own experiences dealing with valid 5 star ratings locked behind a Not Recommended filter. But it may be the case that I am wrong and I ought to reconsider the complexity of the situation. Thanks for the input.

by ex3xu 8y ago

1024core 8y ago

> Though if you already have confirmation bias You don't have to throw such claims around. If anything, they further weaken your case. I watched the first couple of minutes of the video you posted. Even if we take that guy's word for it, you're talking about ONE salesperson. One bad actor. That's it. Which company doesn't have asshole sales people? You are making a stronger claim: that Yelp itself is a bad actor. That, my friend, requires a much higher bar for proof. Look, as I mentioned earlier, I used to work on building ranking algorithms for search engines (no, not Google). In the early days of the Internet (i.e, 15 years ago), there were lots of 3rd party people pulling off stunts like this salesperson. You can call any business today, and try to get protection money (on Yelp) off of them. That doesn't make you a Yelp employee!

ex3xu 8y ago
You're right, I apologize for implying the presence confirmation bias and I don't mean it as a personal attack. I just wanted to express that when you immediately discredit the anecdotal experience of others in favor of your own anecdotal experience, it may be a sign of confirmation bias. But I guess that kind of implication comes with connotations that I didn't intend. Basically, I want to draw your attention to the fact that the salesperson in that video did work for Yelp at the time. Doesn't that on its own distinguish the behavior that's happening at yelp with your experience with third party scammers? Maybe the Wells Fargo scandal from a few years back can be a reference here. If a company is structured in a way where salespeople are incentivized to misbehave for their own personal interest, shouldn't that company be held accountable? Anyway, you're right that I'm wrong to claim with certainty that Yelp is a bad actor. I don't have proof beyond dealing with 5 star reviews for clients locked behind Yelp's "Not recommended". But any company with a monetization scheme that in practice boils down to cold calling and harrassing small businesses, is a company against which I have no problem jumping on any bandwagon that comes my way.

notSupplied 8y ago

Just a random point of feedback, but you sound more like the one carrying confirmation bias here. But really, throwing that phrase around in an internet debate is pretty meaningless rhetoric. It takes YEARS of working with someone before I feel like I understand that person's biases well enough to accuse them of such a thing.

ex3xu 8y ago
You're right. Maybe epistemic closure is a better term. And maybe I need to take some time to evaluate the evidence in context of my own biases before I make baseless accusations. You have to understand that I've internalized articles over a number of years about class action lawsuits against yelp as well as my own experiences dealing with valid 5 star ratings locked behind a Not Recommended filter. But it may be the case that I am wrong and I ought to reconsider the complexity of the situation. Thanks for the input.