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> Put another way, no one wants to be the next Japan. Capable but ultimately stagnant. Huh? I would LOVE to be the next Japan, as opposed to the next South Afr

> Put another way, no one wants to be the next Japan. Capable but ultimately stagnant. Huh? I would LOVE to be the next Japan, as opposed to the next South Africa, Israel, India, Philippines, or Brazil. Because with the massive demographic changes caused by immigration into Europe, they are ensuring unending ethnic conflict. The best they can hope for is that the different people can carve out their own enclaves and leave each other alone, only having small wars flare up occasionally. The problems that Japan is facing are a BLESSING compared to the rest of the 1st world. Nobody talks about the upsides of Japan's population decline. Japan is going to experience a major redistribution of wealth, as fewer people inherit more things. Land that was locked up for centuries is going to be sold to new people. Housing will become more affordable. Already, the chronic crowding is becoming less of a problem, as Japan has essentially "finished" their major infrastructure, and there are no new plans to build any new train lines or anything like that. Something like 30% of our jobs are going to be eliminated in the next 20 years as self driving vehicles are rolled out. Even if immigration were cut to 0, we are still facing a work crisis regardless. Does any nation really need any more unskilled or semi-skilled labor to grow? Check out this new Japanese drywalling robot: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n_sUJtl1V8A https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n_sUJtl1V8A The Japanese are embracing this as an opportunity to improve automation and benefit from the challenge. Countries like Italy and Hungry are rolling out programs to offer financial incentives to people that have more children: https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-36297177 https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-36297177 These are very solvable problems, but many governments are only making things worse.

thaumasiotes 8y ago
> Because with the massive demographic changes caused by immigration into Europe, they are ensuring unending ethnic conflict. Ethnic conflict doesn't have to be unending. Often one side wins.
Tsubasachan 8y ago
I agree with this. Immigration from low skilled people who don't speak the language is simple not an economic boon for developed nations. Western Europe doesn't have Foxconn jobs, agriculture is heavily mechanised and you need to train for 4 years to become a basic nurse.
- bodas 8y ago
  Spending all day on a farm picking fruit is not my idea of fun, but I'm glad that there are people (from other countries) who are excited to come here and do it. I certainly enjoy the fruits of their labour. The same goes for waiters, cleaners, cooks, etc.
  - ng12 8y ago
    Fun? It's a job, not a hobby. A job which is underpaid because there's a near-infinite supply of cheap labor.
  - apostacy 8y ago
    It is sickening that there are people from less developed countries that are so desperate that they will work in conditions that our citizens would otherwise find intolerable. You think this is a good thing?? We should be paying our own citizens enough money to pick fruit for us, and pass the cost along to the consumer. So what if an apple costs three times as much? We can afford it. And we wouldn't be selling our souls. Besides, there will probably be robots doing these kinds of jobs in the next decade anyway. The strife caused by importing a large population of people who have nothing in common with the existing population is NOT worth cheap fruits. Seriously. How did you get conned into thinking this was a good idea?
    - bodas 8y ago
      You're being absurd. It's picking fruit, not working in a sweatshop. People from other countries want to do it. Who are you to tell them that they can't? As long as the immigrant workers have the same rights and working standards as any other worker, what is the problem exactly? > The strife caused by importing a large population of people who have nothing in common with the existing population is NOT worth cheap fruits. Fuck off with this nativist bullshit. I am a proud citizen of London, one of the most diverse cities in the world. I love that every time I take a train I can hear someone speaking a different language. I am willing to burn this HN account to say: Fuck your ideology. My grandparents came to Britain to escape such persecution, people who also talked about the "strife" caused by their existence. I do not come to HN to hear the same thing repeated back to me.
forkLding 8y ago
The issue about declining fertility rates in my mind is sustainability. Does fertility rate keep decreasing simply because there are now even less people as time goes on?

thaumasiotes 8y ago

> Because with the massive demographic changes caused by immigration into Europe, they are ensuring unending ethnic conflict. Ethnic conflict doesn't have to be unending. Often one side wins.

Tsubasachan 8y ago

I agree with this. Immigration from low skilled people who don't speak the language is simple not an economic boon for developed nations. Western Europe doesn't have Foxconn jobs, agriculture is heavily mechanised and you need to train for 4 years to become a basic nurse.

bodas 8y ago
Spending all day on a farm picking fruit is not my idea of fun, but I'm glad that there are people (from other countries) who are excited to come here and do it. I certainly enjoy the fruits of their labour. The same goes for waiters, cleaners, cooks, etc.
- ng12 8y ago
  Fun? It's a job, not a hobby. A job which is underpaid because there's a near-infinite supply of cheap labor.
- apostacy 8y ago
  It is sickening that there are people from less developed countries that are so desperate that they will work in conditions that our citizens would otherwise find intolerable. You think this is a good thing?? We should be paying our own citizens enough money to pick fruit for us, and pass the cost along to the consumer. So what if an apple costs three times as much? We can afford it. And we wouldn't be selling our souls. Besides, there will probably be robots doing these kinds of jobs in the next decade anyway. The strife caused by importing a large population of people who have nothing in common with the existing population is NOT worth cheap fruits. Seriously. How did you get conned into thinking this was a good idea?
  - bodas 8y ago
    You're being absurd. It's picking fruit, not working in a sweatshop. People from other countries want to do it. Who are you to tell them that they can't? As long as the immigrant workers have the same rights and working standards as any other worker, what is the problem exactly? > The strife caused by importing a large population of people who have nothing in common with the existing population is NOT worth cheap fruits. Fuck off with this nativist bullshit. I am a proud citizen of London, one of the most diverse cities in the world. I love that every time I take a train I can hear someone speaking a different language. I am willing to burn this HN account to say: Fuck your ideology. My grandparents came to Britain to escape such persecution, people who also talked about the "strife" caused by their existence. I do not come to HN to hear the same thing repeated back to me.

forkLding 8y ago

The issue about declining fertility rates in my mind is sustainability. Does fertility rate keep decreasing simply because there are now even less people as time goes on?