4 ms·

This is pretty backwards. If you want fewer people to visit, charge more. Charge extra to non locals if you’re so inclined. Don’t allow advertising, sure. But m

This is pretty backwards. If you want fewer people to visit, charge more. Charge extra to non locals if you’re so inclined. Don’t allow advertising, sure. But making parks free doesn’t make the problem better.

timmaah 8y ago
Parks and public lands should be open to all no matter their economic status. Charging more to cap visitors shouldn't even be on the table.
- pilom 8y ago
  What's your solution to parks like Zion that because of geographic constraints, only has 420 parking spaces but more than 2 million visitors per year? That is already 13 people per parking space per day (obviously much worse on weekends and less on weekdays). Your options are 1) charge people more 2) institute a permit system with a lottery or multi-year waiting list (this is what they do on the Colorado River through the Grand Canyon. How many people do you know that have rafted it?) 3) just let everyone's experience be ruined by more people than the park can handle. 4) Pave paradise and put up a parking lot. Those are the options you have to pick. Given those are the options, number 1 seems pretty darn appealing.
  - timmaah 8y ago
    > number 1 seems pretty darn appealing Ouch. The rich have enough playgrounds already. 2. Lottery or capped reservations. Zion is just nuts at the moment. It's awesome to see everyone out and about enjoying nature but the amount of people are just overwhelming to the senses. (The park itself seems to be holding up fairly well) 5. Carefully exploit the resources for a few more trails and opportunities. 6. Foreign tourists could be charged a greater amount.
    - Symbiote 8y ago
      7. Put on a bus on the busiest weekend, from a place with adequate parking, like a nearby town. I visited Gatineau Park (just north of Ottawa) this way. I think the bus was free. It also meant we didn't need to plan a round-trip hike.
      - timmaah 8y ago
        Zion Canyon is already off limits to personal vehicles much of the year. Busses have been running for the last 18 years. In the peak season there can be a multi hour wait and the nearby town is also constrained by the canyon and there is no more places to put in parking lots. I don't really think there is an option besides limiting daily visitors.
  - int_19h 8y ago
    We do lotteries for hunting permits in many cases. I don't see anything wrong with that. What's the point of public lands, if access to them is contingent on wealth?
drstewart 8y ago
>Charge extra to non locals if you’re so inclined These are National Parks, not state parks. Locals don't pay for them, we all do.
- netfire 8y ago
  How about international visitors? Since they don’t pay taxes to help maintain the park should they have to pay a higher entrance fee?
  - Symbiote 8y ago
    It is nicer to ask for an (additional) donation. For example, the British Museum is free, but the donation box when leaving points out that its paid for by taxes. I've seen international tourists making significant donations (e.g. £30+ for a family) recognising what visiting a similar museum would cost in their own country. But I like that a student from a low-income country can still visit the museum, and I'm happy for taxes to cover the cost.

timmaah 8y ago

Parks and public lands should be open to all no matter their economic status. Charging more to cap visitors shouldn't even be on the table.

pilom 8y ago
What's your solution to parks like Zion that because of geographic constraints, only has 420 parking spaces but more than 2 million visitors per year? That is already 13 people per parking space per day (obviously much worse on weekends and less on weekdays). Your options are 1) charge people more 2) institute a permit system with a lottery or multi-year waiting list (this is what they do on the Colorado River through the Grand Canyon. How many people do you know that have rafted it?) 3) just let everyone's experience be ruined by more people than the park can handle. 4) Pave paradise and put up a parking lot. Those are the options you have to pick. Given those are the options, number 1 seems pretty darn appealing.
- timmaah 8y ago
  > number 1 seems pretty darn appealing Ouch. The rich have enough playgrounds already. 2. Lottery or capped reservations. Zion is just nuts at the moment. It's awesome to see everyone out and about enjoying nature but the amount of people are just overwhelming to the senses. (The park itself seems to be holding up fairly well) 5. Carefully exploit the resources for a few more trails and opportunities. 6. Foreign tourists could be charged a greater amount.
  - Symbiote 8y ago
    7. Put on a bus on the busiest weekend, from a place with adequate parking, like a nearby town. I visited Gatineau Park (just north of Ottawa) this way. I think the bus was free. It also meant we didn't need to plan a round-trip hike.
    - timmaah 8y ago
      Zion Canyon is already off limits to personal vehicles much of the year. Busses have been running for the last 18 years. In the peak season there can be a multi hour wait and the nearby town is also constrained by the canyon and there is no more places to put in parking lots. I don't really think there is an option besides limiting daily visitors.
- int_19h 8y ago
  We do lotteries for hunting permits in many cases. I don't see anything wrong with that. What's the point of public lands, if access to them is contingent on wealth?

drstewart 8y ago

>Charge extra to non locals if you’re so inclined These are National Parks, not state parks. Locals don't pay for them, we all do.

netfire 8y ago
How about international visitors? Since they don’t pay taxes to help maintain the park should they have to pay a higher entrance fee?
- Symbiote 8y ago
  It is nicer to ask for an (additional) donation. For example, the British Museum is free, but the donation box when leaving points out that its paid for by taxes. I've seen international tourists making significant donations (e.g. £30+ for a family) recognising what visiting a similar museum would cost in their own country. But I like that a student from a low-income country can still visit the museum, and I'm happy for taxes to cover the cost.