4 ms·

But haven't sperm levels in men dropped drastically since then as well?

jandrese 8y ago
Citation needed. As far as I know that is a wingnut paranoia point and not supported by the data. Edit: Looks like I've been missing the story on this one. Interesting that the articles all talk about obesity, unknown chemicals, brief style underwear, and whatnot as a possible cause without stopping to consider that maybe societal attitudes towards masturbation may play a role.
- wild_preference 8y ago
  > Interesting that the articles all talk about obesity, unknown chemicals, brief style underwear, and whatnot as a possible cause without stopping to consider that maybe societal attitudes towards masturbation may play a role. First you deny that it exists at all, calling it wingnut paranoia. When proven wrong, you suddenly suggest that it's so self-evident that you cannot fathom why nobody has considered societal views on masturbation as a culprit. And then you decide it's so obvious that no explanation is needed, leaving the connection as an exercise for the reader.
- cheeseomlit 8y ago
  https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/sperm-count-dropping-in-western-world/ https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/sperm-count-dropp...
- ceejayoz 8y ago
  Uh, no. https://www.npr.org/2017/07/31/539517210/sperm-counts-plummet-in-western-men-study-finds https://www.npr.org/2017/07/31/539517210/sperm-counts-plumme...
- no1youknowz 8y ago
  Here's one after a 10 second google for "sperm rates in men" https://www.vox.com/science-and-health/2018/9/17/17841518/low-sperm-count-semen-male-fertility https://www.vox.com/science-and-health/2018/9/17/17841518/lo... The takeaway: https://i.imgur.com/RhrrNI2.png https://i.imgur.com/RhrrNI2.png
  - stavrianos 8y ago
    > sperm rates in women remain constant
- jsnk 8y ago
  This is just an well established fact. Sperm count in industrialized nations have dropped considerably over decades. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1393072 https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1393072
- daxorid 8y ago
  NYT: https://www.nytimes.com/2017/08/16/health/male-sperm-count-problem.html https://www.nytimes.com/2017/08/16/health/male-sperm-count-p... LS: https://www.livescience.com/22694-global-sperm-count-decline.html https://www.livescience.com/22694-global-sperm-count-decline...
- cmansley 8y ago
  nyt is wingnut? https://www.nytimes.com/2018/07/25/style/sperm-count.html https://www.nytimes.com/2018/07/25/style/sperm-count.html
  - auganov 8y ago
    This article displays pretty much all that is wrong with the reporting on this. A lot of talk about vaguely related sensational commentary, very little on the practical significance (if any).
- trowway21 8y ago
  https://www.nytimes.com/2017/08/16/health/male-sperm-count-problem.html https://www.nytimes.com/2017/08/16/health/male-sperm-count-p...
- village-idiot 8y ago
  Really? Masturbation? Come on.
  - jandrese 8y ago
    Just as plausible as any of the other theories they put forth in those articles. Lots of shoulder shrugs from what I saw.
    - village-idiot 8y ago
      No it’s not. Humans have masturbated for as long as humans have been around. A large percentage of our closely related primates masturbate a lot. Yet the apparent drop in sperm counts is relatively new, as are a few of the other proposed causative agents.
- scythe 8y ago
  >without stopping to consider that maybe societal attitudes towards masturbation may play a role. There have been many studies of the effect of ejaculation frequency on sperm count. https://scholar.google.com/scholar?cites=3570492534952529068&as_sdt=2005&sciodt=0,5&hl=en https://scholar.google.com/scholar?cites=3570492534952529068... There is about a 25% increase of sperm count after a few days’ abstinence. There are no effects on sperm quality. The researchers who study decreasing sperm counts are all aware of these effects and would not make such a sophomoric mistake. And there are trends of declining sperm quality: https://scholar.google.com/scholar?hl=en&as_sdt=2005&sciodt=0%2C5&cites=3570492534952529068&scipsc=&q=semen+quality+trend&btnG=#d=gs_qabs&p=&u=%23p%3DAsgP3nKlV_MJ https://scholar.google.com/scholar?hl=en&as_sdt=2005&sciodt=... Before you accuse others of citing a “wingnut paranoia point”, take a look at your own priors.
snowwrestler 8y ago
Yes, but that is not really why the birth rate is dropping. The cause is that more women are choosing (who can choose, really) to not have children, or to have fewer children.
- creaghpatr 8y ago
  And logistically, there wasn't really widespread access to reliable birth control before 1950.

Citation needed. As far as I know that is a wingnut paranoia point and not supported by the data. Edit: Looks like I've been missing the story on this one. Interesting that the articles all talk about obesity, unknown chemicals, brief style underwear, and whatnot as a possible cause without stopping to consider that maybe societal attitudes towards masturbation may play a role.

wild_preference 8y ago
> Interesting that the articles all talk about obesity, unknown chemicals, brief style underwear, and whatnot as a possible cause without stopping to consider that maybe societal attitudes towards masturbation may play a role. First you deny that it exists at all, calling it wingnut paranoia. When proven wrong, you suddenly suggest that it's so self-evident that you cannot fathom why nobody has considered societal views on masturbation as a culprit. And then you decide it's so obvious that no explanation is needed, leaving the connection as an exercise for the reader.
cheeseomlit 8y ago
https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/sperm-count-dropping-in-western-world/ https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/sperm-count-dropp...
ceejayoz 8y ago
Uh, no. https://www.npr.org/2017/07/31/539517210/sperm-counts-plummet-in-western-men-study-finds https://www.npr.org/2017/07/31/539517210/sperm-counts-plumme...
no1youknowz 8y ago
Here's one after a 10 second google for "sperm rates in men" https://www.vox.com/science-and-health/2018/9/17/17841518/low-sperm-count-semen-male-fertility https://www.vox.com/science-and-health/2018/9/17/17841518/lo... The takeaway: https://i.imgur.com/RhrrNI2.png https://i.imgur.com/RhrrNI2.png
- stavrianos 8y ago
  > sperm rates in women remain constant
jsnk 8y ago
This is just an well established fact. Sperm count in industrialized nations have dropped considerably over decades. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1393072 https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1393072
daxorid 8y ago
NYT: https://www.nytimes.com/2017/08/16/health/male-sperm-count-problem.html https://www.nytimes.com/2017/08/16/health/male-sperm-count-p... LS: https://www.livescience.com/22694-global-sperm-count-decline.html https://www.livescience.com/22694-global-sperm-count-decline...
cmansley 8y ago
nyt is wingnut? https://www.nytimes.com/2018/07/25/style/sperm-count.html https://www.nytimes.com/2018/07/25/style/sperm-count.html
- auganov 8y ago
  This article displays pretty much all that is wrong with the reporting on this. A lot of talk about vaguely related sensational commentary, very little on the practical significance (if any).
trowway21 8y ago
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/08/16/health/male-sperm-count-problem.html https://www.nytimes.com/2017/08/16/health/male-sperm-count-p...
village-idiot 8y ago
Really? Masturbation? Come on.
- jandrese 8y ago
  Just as plausible as any of the other theories they put forth in those articles. Lots of shoulder shrugs from what I saw.
  - village-idiot 8y ago
    No it’s not. Humans have masturbated for as long as humans have been around. A large percentage of our closely related primates masturbate a lot. Yet the apparent drop in sperm counts is relatively new, as are a few of the other proposed causative agents.
scythe 8y ago
>without stopping to consider that maybe societal attitudes towards masturbation may play a role. There have been many studies of the effect of ejaculation frequency on sperm count. https://scholar.google.com/scholar?cites=3570492534952529068&as_sdt=2005&sciodt=0,5&hl=en https://scholar.google.com/scholar?cites=3570492534952529068... There is about a 25% increase of sperm count after a few days’ abstinence. There are no effects on sperm quality. The researchers who study decreasing sperm counts are all aware of these effects and would not make such a sophomoric mistake. And there are trends of declining sperm quality: https://scholar.google.com/scholar?hl=en&as_sdt=2005&sciodt=0%2C5&cites=3570492534952529068&scipsc=&q=semen+quality+trend&btnG=#d=gs_qabs&p=&u=%23p%3DAsgP3nKlV_MJ https://scholar.google.com/scholar?hl=en&as_sdt=2005&sciodt=... Before you accuse others of citing a “wingnut paranoia point”, take a look at your own priors.

snowwrestler 8y ago

Yes, but that is not really why the birth rate is dropping. The cause is that more women are choosing (who can choose, really) to not have children, or to have fewer children.

creaghpatr 8y ago
And logistically, there wasn't really widespread access to reliable birth control before 1950.