7 ms·

All the regulation in the world won't do any good against a highly corrupt government like the one Romania is sadly facing at the moment.

JumpCrisscross 8y ago
> All the regulation in the world won't do any good against a highly corrupt government It doesn't help to add arrows to their quiver. GDPR is a good law when a government can be trusted. It throws petrol on the fire in over-reaching states.
- torstenvl 8y ago
  A state that has something like the GDPR is, by that very fact, overreaching.
  - overkalix 8y ago
    "It's OK though, government X will only use GDPR for good and they will go easy on small companies and individuals infringing it". Literally the argument you would eventually see at the end of threads about GDPR. I don't know how many times I've said this, but it amazes me that people can feel so identified and represented by nation-state politics that they are so willing to trust their government.
    - vertex-four 8y ago
      I don't trust the companies that the GDPR is targeting either - who are more involved in my life on a day-to-day basis and can have as much or more effect on it, short of literally putting me in a cell. Information is power, and it's generally private companies wielding it. We exist in a society where companies and Government and the people all continually back each other up in oppressing people. Fact of the matter is, that the GDPR is a pile of shit (it's basically an argument that only the Government should be allowed to amass and weaponise information, where I'd argue that nobody should be allowed to), but so is the mass centralisation of information in the hands of large, powerful entities that it's intended to target. And one would be entirely unnecessary and unwarranted without the other.
    - simias 8y ago
      I don't feel "identified and represented by nation-state politics", whatever that means. But I do trust my democratically elected government to some extent. At least, I trust it more that the companies GDPR is supposed to protect me from. And you're building a strawman with GDPR supporters, I don't think anybody said that nobody would ever try to abuse it. The GDPR has explicit provisions protecting journalists. It remains to be seen how this particular case pans out and if they truly manage to get the journalists to expose their source (or get heavily fined). If the Romanian authorities really manages to get this through and the rest of the Eurogroup doesn't react then yeah, that's quite worrying. Also note that it's not like without the GDPR those journalists would be able to work peacefully anyway: >Dragnea invoked the European data protection legislation last year when he threatened RISE Project with a lawsuit after journalists published stories on his connections to Tel Drum SA executives and other Romanian business people indicted for corruption and fraud. >The president of the PSD never sued but soon after these threats were made, the Romanian Anti-Fraud Authority (ANAF) raided RISE Project’s offices, saying they suspected the organization of fraud. The investigation carried out by ANAF never uncovered any such fraud. >RISE Project discovered that the initial complaint ANAF used to target RISE was a forgery filed by a non-existent person, with a non-existent physical address who falsely claimed that she worked as an accountant at the media house. Due process is not really the keyword here from what I understand from this article. Something tells me that if it wasn't about the GDPR it would be something else.
      - baddox 8y ago
        > At least, I trust it more that the companies GDPR is supposed to protect me from. I can't imagine that's true for investigative journalists reporting on corrupt governments. Big corporations do plenty of harm, but mostly in large-scale aggregate effects (like manipulating prices, tracking online behavior to deliver ads, creating filter bubbles in social networks, etc.), but governments can and do throw people in jail or worse.
      - mst 8y ago
        > I trust it more that the companies GDPR is supposed to protect me from. Agreed. Just.
      - 8y ago
- AJ007 8y ago
  What government can be trusted?
  - ben_w 8y ago
    One which is effectively regulated. Separate police, courts, lawmakers, executive, etc., where they are incentivised to prevent corruption.
    - TomMarius 8y ago
      Could you name such government? I don't know about any single government in the world that isn't corrupt, only ones that are less corrupt than other ones, and that is not nearly enough.
- Asooka 8y ago
  From my perspective, living in one of those highly corrupt governments, it's better to be in the EU and subject to the occasional malicious application of an otherwise well-meant law, that does benefit actual legitimate governments, than to be out of the EU and under Russian control with completely unchecked corruption. The hope is that over time, the mafia will grow into a form that steals money in the usual manner of western societies, skimming a bit off the top (e.g. tax fraud, etc.) and otherwise leaving a normally functioning society, rather than just taking everything and telling us to eat shit.
- int_19h 8y ago
  The problem, of course, is that the country can have a trusted government today, and one that is very much not trusted tomorrow. Historical examples are many.
TomMckenny 8y ago
It's the fashion to twist laws to cover unconscionable behavior it seems. I'm only surprised Orban or Morawiecki didn't think of it first. But it's no surprise when the press is called "the enemy of the people"

JumpCrisscross 8y ago

> All the regulation in the world won't do any good against a highly corrupt government It doesn't help to add arrows to their quiver. GDPR is a good law when a government can be trusted. It throws petrol on the fire in over-reaching states.

torstenvl 8y ago
A state that has something like the GDPR is, by that very fact, overreaching.
- overkalix 8y ago
  "It's OK though, government X will only use GDPR for good and they will go easy on small companies and individuals infringing it". Literally the argument you would eventually see at the end of threads about GDPR. I don't know how many times I've said this, but it amazes me that people can feel so identified and represented by nation-state politics that they are so willing to trust their government.
  - vertex-four 8y ago
    I don't trust the companies that the GDPR is targeting either - who are more involved in my life on a day-to-day basis and can have as much or more effect on it, short of literally putting me in a cell. Information is power, and it's generally private companies wielding it. We exist in a society where companies and Government and the people all continually back each other up in oppressing people. Fact of the matter is, that the GDPR is a pile of shit (it's basically an argument that only the Government should be allowed to amass and weaponise information, where I'd argue that nobody should be allowed to), but so is the mass centralisation of information in the hands of large, powerful entities that it's intended to target. And one would be entirely unnecessary and unwarranted without the other.
  - simias 8y ago
    I don't feel "identified and represented by nation-state politics", whatever that means. But I do trust my democratically elected government to some extent. At least, I trust it more that the companies GDPR is supposed to protect me from. And you're building a strawman with GDPR supporters, I don't think anybody said that nobody would ever try to abuse it. The GDPR has explicit provisions protecting journalists. It remains to be seen how this particular case pans out and if they truly manage to get the journalists to expose their source (or get heavily fined). If the Romanian authorities really manages to get this through and the rest of the Eurogroup doesn't react then yeah, that's quite worrying. Also note that it's not like without the GDPR those journalists would be able to work peacefully anyway: >Dragnea invoked the European data protection legislation last year when he threatened RISE Project with a lawsuit after journalists published stories on his connections to Tel Drum SA executives and other Romanian business people indicted for corruption and fraud. >The president of the PSD never sued but soon after these threats were made, the Romanian Anti-Fraud Authority (ANAF) raided RISE Project’s offices, saying they suspected the organization of fraud. The investigation carried out by ANAF never uncovered any such fraud. >RISE Project discovered that the initial complaint ANAF used to target RISE was a forgery filed by a non-existent person, with a non-existent physical address who falsely claimed that she worked as an accountant at the media house. Due process is not really the keyword here from what I understand from this article. Something tells me that if it wasn't about the GDPR it would be something else.
    - baddox 8y ago
      > At least, I trust it more that the companies GDPR is supposed to protect me from. I can't imagine that's true for investigative journalists reporting on corrupt governments. Big corporations do plenty of harm, but mostly in large-scale aggregate effects (like manipulating prices, tracking online behavior to deliver ads, creating filter bubbles in social networks, etc.), but governments can and do throw people in jail or worse.
    - mst 8y ago
      > I trust it more that the companies GDPR is supposed to protect me from. Agreed. Just.
    - 8y ago
AJ007 8y ago
What government can be trusted?
- ben_w 8y ago
  One which is effectively regulated. Separate police, courts, lawmakers, executive, etc., where they are incentivised to prevent corruption.
  - TomMarius 8y ago
    Could you name such government? I don't know about any single government in the world that isn't corrupt, only ones that are less corrupt than other ones, and that is not nearly enough.
Asooka 8y ago
From my perspective, living in one of those highly corrupt governments, it's better to be in the EU and subject to the occasional malicious application of an otherwise well-meant law, that does benefit actual legitimate governments, than to be out of the EU and under Russian control with completely unchecked corruption. The hope is that over time, the mafia will grow into a form that steals money in the usual manner of western societies, skimming a bit off the top (e.g. tax fraud, etc.) and otherwise leaving a normally functioning society, rather than just taking everything and telling us to eat shit.
int_19h 8y ago
The problem, of course, is that the country can have a trusted government today, and one that is very much not trusted tomorrow. Historical examples are many.

TomMckenny 8y ago

It's the fashion to twist laws to cover unconscionable behavior it seems. I'm only surprised Orban or Morawiecki didn't think of it first. But it's no surprise when the press is called "the enemy of the people"