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> It’s a controversial but legal practice in the brokerage industry called payment for order flow. and then > But that’s only if the broker passes that benefi

> It’s a controversial but legal practice in the brokerage industry called payment for order flow. and then > But that’s only if the broker passes that benefit, which brokers call “price improvement,” down to the customer. > It’s unclear whether Robinhood gives customers that benefit So the customer is not benefiting in this case, yet it's not illegal, just "controversial". ...Like a whole lot of other things on Wall Street, where crime is legalized and so none of the suits go to jail.

seibelj 8y ago
> Wall Street, where crime is legalized and so none of the suits go to jail Crime is not legal on Wall Street nor anywhere else in America. If you don't like the laws, we have a system to change them. It seems like you disagree with the finance profession, whose purpose is to efficiently move and allocate capital.
- unethical_ban 8y ago
  >Crime is not legal on Wall Street nor anywhere else in America. Wow, you really are using pedantry to avoid the larger point of the parent post.
  - seibelj 8y ago
    A "controversial" practice, which allows free trades at slightly more expensive prices, that is not illegal, does not mean the entire industry is corrupt. It's arguable that pharmaceutical rebates are bribery, so is the pharma industry criminal? College football coaches make millions while professors become starving adjuncts, is academia criminal? I think we can separate issues from describing an enormously essential component of our economy as criminal.
    - sharkmerry 8y ago
      arent you ignoring the externalities ? >>which allows free trades at slightly more expensive prices so they arent free, its priced in. Not criminal, but misleading and could be construed as corrupt. >> t's arguable that pharmaceutical rebates are bribery, so is the pharma industry criminal? are the rebates helping to push a drug that they know to be addictive? if its not criminal, it should be. >> College football coaches make millions while professors become starving adjuncts, is academia criminal? and college athletes get no pay, but a very "strings attached" education, in which many end up going to bed hungry, which basically amounts to indentured servitude if not slavery
      - seibelj 8y ago
        I’ve found that going down the path of being outraged at large fractions of society, such as industries / politics / belief systems, is extremely tiresome and makes you permanently angry at the world. More nuance can give you a healthier outlook, or you risk forever throwing rocks at a mountain.
        sharkmerry 8y ago
        You arent giving nuance. Your just acting as a contrarian, interpreting the original comment literally, then pedantically responding. thats not helping a discussion
        seibelj 8y ago
        I personally do not think the financial industry, nor wall st in particular, is a bastion of criminality that all of us should automatically hate as educated people.
- Sohcahtoa82 8y ago
  I feel like you're being deliberately naive. When people talk about crime being legal on Wall Street, they're referring to the many cases of fraud on the scale of billions of dollars that result in no jail time for the people involved. Sometimes there will be fines, but the fines are significantly less than the amount of money the bank profits from the fraud. For a couple quick examples that immediately come to mind, see everything that led to the 2008 crash, or Wells Fargo creating checking and credit card accounts without permission.
  - justboxing 8y ago
    > they're referring to the many cases of fraud on the scale of billions of dollars that result in no jail time for the people involved Yes, this exactly is what I meant. Laws are written and passed that legalize what would otherwise be criminal conduct, and on the other side, the SEC will simply levy fines on fraud and no-one goes to jail [1]. Usually the fines, even if it's millions, is just a blimp on the quarterly profits of the wall street entity in question. > BNP used a network of banks in the Middle East, Europe and Africa with their own clearing codes to mask dollar-based transfers connected to Sudanese companies. Employees also removed information from wire transfers that could have revealed the identity of the countries blacklisted by the United States, according to the complaint. Source: France’s BNP Paribas to pay $8.9 billion to U.S. for sanctions violations => https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/economy/frances-bnp-paribas-to-pay-89-billion-to-us-for-money-laundering/2014/06/30/6d99d174-fc76-11e3-b1f4-8e77c632c07b_story.html https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/economy/frances-bnp-... In this case, BNP Paribas officials at the highest level were involved in laundering money for the Sudanese Government, directly working with Govt officials. This directly translated to funding genocide in the South Sudan war (by way of the Sudanese Govt purchasing weapons and killing people). Yet not a single person went to jail from BNP Paribas. The fine they paid is nothing compared to what they make in yearly profits.
    - charlesdm 8y ago
      US sanctions or not, I'm sure they did not make $8.9 billion on those transactions. The Sudanese government could likely still purchase weapons with euros or roubles. The only situation where sanctions are effective (for now) is when countries need to sell commodities into USD, i.e. oil. But that is also changing as the dollar becomes less of a global reserve currency.
- sumedh 8y ago
  > Crime is not legal on Wall Street nor anywhere else in America. The big banks pay fines for money laundering yet no bankers go to jail.

seibelj 8y ago

> Wall Street, where crime is legalized and so none of the suits go to jail Crime is not legal on Wall Street nor anywhere else in America. If you don't like the laws, we have a system to change them. It seems like you disagree with the finance profession, whose purpose is to efficiently move and allocate capital.

unethical_ban 8y ago
>Crime is not legal on Wall Street nor anywhere else in America. Wow, you really are using pedantry to avoid the larger point of the parent post.
- seibelj 8y ago
  A "controversial" practice, which allows free trades at slightly more expensive prices, that is not illegal, does not mean the entire industry is corrupt. It's arguable that pharmaceutical rebates are bribery, so is the pharma industry criminal? College football coaches make millions while professors become starving adjuncts, is academia criminal? I think we can separate issues from describing an enormously essential component of our economy as criminal.
  - sharkmerry 8y ago
    arent you ignoring the externalities ? >>which allows free trades at slightly more expensive prices so they arent free, its priced in. Not criminal, but misleading and could be construed as corrupt. >> t's arguable that pharmaceutical rebates are bribery, so is the pharma industry criminal? are the rebates helping to push a drug that they know to be addictive? if its not criminal, it should be. >> College football coaches make millions while professors become starving adjuncts, is academia criminal? and college athletes get no pay, but a very "strings attached" education, in which many end up going to bed hungry, which basically amounts to indentured servitude if not slavery
    - seibelj 8y ago
      I’ve found that going down the path of being outraged at large fractions of society, such as industries / politics / belief systems, is extremely tiresome and makes you permanently angry at the world. More nuance can give you a healthier outlook, or you risk forever throwing rocks at a mountain.
      - sharkmerry 8y ago
        You arent giving nuance. Your just acting as a contrarian, interpreting the original comment literally, then pedantically responding. thats not helping a discussion
        seibelj 8y ago
        I personally do not think the financial industry, nor wall st in particular, is a bastion of criminality that all of us should automatically hate as educated people.
Sohcahtoa82 8y ago
I feel like you're being deliberately naive. When people talk about crime being legal on Wall Street, they're referring to the many cases of fraud on the scale of billions of dollars that result in no jail time for the people involved. Sometimes there will be fines, but the fines are significantly less than the amount of money the bank profits from the fraud. For a couple quick examples that immediately come to mind, see everything that led to the 2008 crash, or Wells Fargo creating checking and credit card accounts without permission.
- justboxing 8y ago
  > they're referring to the many cases of fraud on the scale of billions of dollars that result in no jail time for the people involved Yes, this exactly is what I meant. Laws are written and passed that legalize what would otherwise be criminal conduct, and on the other side, the SEC will simply levy fines on fraud and no-one goes to jail [1]. Usually the fines, even if it's millions, is just a blimp on the quarterly profits of the wall street entity in question. > BNP used a network of banks in the Middle East, Europe and Africa with their own clearing codes to mask dollar-based transfers connected to Sudanese companies. Employees also removed information from wire transfers that could have revealed the identity of the countries blacklisted by the United States, according to the complaint. Source: France’s BNP Paribas to pay $8.9 billion to U.S. for sanctions violations => https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/economy/frances-bnp-paribas-to-pay-89-billion-to-us-for-money-laundering/2014/06/30/6d99d174-fc76-11e3-b1f4-8e77c632c07b_story.html https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/economy/frances-bnp-... In this case, BNP Paribas officials at the highest level were involved in laundering money for the Sudanese Government, directly working with Govt officials. This directly translated to funding genocide in the South Sudan war (by way of the Sudanese Govt purchasing weapons and killing people). Yet not a single person went to jail from BNP Paribas. The fine they paid is nothing compared to what they make in yearly profits.
  - charlesdm 8y ago
    US sanctions or not, I'm sure they did not make $8.9 billion on those transactions. The Sudanese government could likely still purchase weapons with euros or roubles. The only situation where sanctions are effective (for now) is when countries need to sell commodities into USD, i.e. oil. But that is also changing as the dollar becomes less of a global reserve currency.
sumedh 8y ago
> Crime is not legal on Wall Street nor anywhere else in America. The big banks pay fines for money laundering yet no bankers go to jail.