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Good. Yelp is utter trash. They've shaken down several friends of mine who own and run restaurants. Either you pay for their premium services or a bunch of 1 st

Good. Yelp is utter trash. They've shaken down several friends of mine who own and run restaurants. Either you pay for their premium services or a bunch of 1 star reviews start magically appearing on your business Its a well known racket and they should be run out of town on a rail for it. On a more personal note, they also refused to adequately protect my wife when we encountered and reported an unscrupulous vendor who threatened my wife and exposed her personal information on the site. There is a very real need for this kind of thing but Yelp has proven time and time again that they can't be trusted to deliver it.

zelon88 8y ago
This. After I received my first positive review on the site they called me and tried selling me all kinds of advertising. Hundreds of dollars per month worth. I declined, and around the same time my review went from being on my business page to being buried behind a "View Reviews that are not recommended" link. It's a total scam and they should be dragged into court and their internal memos and procedures turned inside out for the world to see.
- istjohn 8y ago
  As long as we're sharing anecdata, I too was agressively pursued by their sales department after my first couple reviews. I declined, and nothing happened. My business became one of the highest-rated in its category locally. I even sucessfully requested the removal of a fake 3-star review (I know all my customers, and the reviewer was never one). And all along, I never paid Yelp a cent. I have since spent money on Yelp, but it was not necessary to reach the top of my local Yelp listings.
  - tomglynch 8y ago
    Playing devil's advocate here but maybe they had already targeted many similar businesses in the area and were giving them all bad reviews. For these bad reviews to make a difference, there needs to be one with good reviews.
bredren 8y ago
They raised too much money, had a down round and have been on the ropes for some time. This is what happens.
1024core 8y ago
I hear what you're saying. But bear in mind that there's an entire "SEO" industry out there, which tries to shake down businesses by either promising to improve their search rankings, or threatening to tank their search rankings. So I'm sure your friends got a bunch of calls about this. But are you (or they) sure it was Yelp, though? Often it's some scammers in foreign countries like India.
- ex3xu 8y ago
  No, this is not some conspiracy theory by a few anecdotal players. This is a quite well-documented phenomenon well-known to small business owners across a wide variety of industries. I understand that the instinct is "There's no way a big company could be doing something so obviously unethical and get away with it". But just do your own research, there's articles detailing sales calls that literally offer to remove bad reviews. Only Yelp has algorithmic control over what reviews get put into "not recommended", and one of the "coincidences" that happen after these calls is that 5 star reviews start disappearing. And do you think it is a coincidence that those positive reviews get restored after a business pays for advertising services? Yelp has been involved in class acton lawsuits for this behavior no fewer than three times, and while they deny everything the court ruling astoundlingly claimed that this behavior isn't illegal or extortionary: https://www.sfgate.com/news/article/Yelp-can-give-paying-clients-better-ratings-5731200.php https://www.sfgate.com/news/article/Yelp-can-give-paying-cli...
  - istjohn 8y ago
    > and one of the "coincidences" that happen after these calls is that 5 star reviews start disappearing. And do you think it is a coincidence that those positive reviews get restored after a business pays for advertising services? This is hearsay that is quoted in the article you link to, but I would like to see proof of positive reviews being restored after purchasing advertising. This would not be difficult to document if it is happening. Lawsuits in which Yelp has prevailed are not compelling evidence for the claims of malfeasance.
  - 1024core 8y ago
    > No, this is not some conspiracy theory by a few anecdotal players. I've been working in the search engine industry for more than 15 years (as in, worked on core ranking algorithms and other infrastructure for a long time). I've heard similar reports countless times about ranking algorithms that our team controlled, and it was all just speculation. Once again: Yelp has been around for 10+ years. By now, surely someone will have iron-clad proof that they paid to get bad reviews removed. I have not seen any.
thoughtexplorer 8y ago
> Either you pay for their premium services or a bunch of 1 star reviews start magically appearing on your business How do you square that claim given that both current and former Yelp employees say they do no such thing? How do you know those reviews are fake vs coincidence? I've heard a lot of anecdotes and conspiracies about this, but have never seen actual proof. No documents, recorded phone calls, court cases etc? And given how many people have worked at Yelp it's strange no one has blown the whistle yet if they engage in such practices. They would be an instant hero.
- vikingcaffiene 8y ago
  I square it by actually knowing people who've been affected. It's not like it was ambiguous or hard to figure out how it works. Its a VERY commonly known thing in the F&B industry and they all hate Yelp for it.
- parthdesai 8y ago
  There is a whole article on cbc about it. Here is the link: https://www.cbc.ca/news/business/yelp-accused-of-bullying-businesses-into-paying-for-better-reviews-1.2899308 https://www.cbc.ca/news/business/yelp-accused-of-bullying-bu...
  - thoughtexplorer 8y ago
    Still no proof, just accusations. In fact the business owners say Yelp didn't actually say these things. "What I got without spoken direct words..." "The restaurateur says the representative didn’t blatantly tell Dloomy he could solve his problem by paying up, but he believes that was the underlying message" It sounds like motivated reasoning and applying an existing narrative to the advertising calls.
  - istjohn 8y ago
    That article is hardly conclusive. There are plenty of salty business owners, and somewhat understandably. Yelp is far more proactive than, say, Amazon in policing reviews with its automated software. They do sometimes filter legitimate reviews, particularly when a reviewer has few other reviews on the site and is very flattering to the business. They do not want businesses to game the system by bribing customers or recruiting friends and family. But of course, sometimes this incorrectly flags legitimate positive reviews. And when simultaneous negative reviews don't get filtered, this is understandably frustrating for businesses. And it doesn't take much imagination for a slightly paranoid owner to wonder if Yelp's pushy sales efforts have a nefarious undertone. But this aggressive quality control is what makes Yelp ratings so much more useful than Amazon ratings. And if businesses can keep attracting positive reviews, especially from established reviewers on the platform, and perhaps more importantly, avoid negative reviews, their ratings will rise. And they will have to fight Yelp's slightly trigger-happy automated review moderation whether or not they give money to a Yelp sales rep.
kadendogthing 8y ago
Yeah yelp doesn't do this.

zelon88 8y ago

This. After I received my first positive review on the site they called me and tried selling me all kinds of advertising. Hundreds of dollars per month worth. I declined, and around the same time my review went from being on my business page to being buried behind a "View Reviews that are not recommended" link. It's a total scam and they should be dragged into court and their internal memos and procedures turned inside out for the world to see.

istjohn 8y ago
As long as we're sharing anecdata, I too was agressively pursued by their sales department after my first couple reviews. I declined, and nothing happened. My business became one of the highest-rated in its category locally. I even sucessfully requested the removal of a fake 3-star review (I know all my customers, and the reviewer was never one). And all along, I never paid Yelp a cent. I have since spent money on Yelp, but it was not necessary to reach the top of my local Yelp listings.
- tomglynch 8y ago
  Playing devil's advocate here but maybe they had already targeted many similar businesses in the area and were giving them all bad reviews. For these bad reviews to make a difference, there needs to be one with good reviews.

bredren 8y ago

They raised too much money, had a down round and have been on the ropes for some time. This is what happens.

1024core 8y ago

I hear what you're saying. But bear in mind that there's an entire "SEO" industry out there, which tries to shake down businesses by either promising to improve their search rankings, or threatening to tank their search rankings. So I'm sure your friends got a bunch of calls about this. But are you (or they) sure it was Yelp, though? Often it's some scammers in foreign countries like India.

ex3xu 8y ago
No, this is not some conspiracy theory by a few anecdotal players. This is a quite well-documented phenomenon well-known to small business owners across a wide variety of industries. I understand that the instinct is "There's no way a big company could be doing something so obviously unethical and get away with it". But just do your own research, there's articles detailing sales calls that literally offer to remove bad reviews. Only Yelp has algorithmic control over what reviews get put into "not recommended", and one of the "coincidences" that happen after these calls is that 5 star reviews start disappearing. And do you think it is a coincidence that those positive reviews get restored after a business pays for advertising services? Yelp has been involved in class acton lawsuits for this behavior no fewer than three times, and while they deny everything the court ruling astoundlingly claimed that this behavior isn't illegal or extortionary: https://www.sfgate.com/news/article/Yelp-can-give-paying-clients-better-ratings-5731200.php https://www.sfgate.com/news/article/Yelp-can-give-paying-cli...
- istjohn 8y ago
  > and one of the "coincidences" that happen after these calls is that 5 star reviews start disappearing. And do you think it is a coincidence that those positive reviews get restored after a business pays for advertising services? This is hearsay that is quoted in the article you link to, but I would like to see proof of positive reviews being restored after purchasing advertising. This would not be difficult to document if it is happening. Lawsuits in which Yelp has prevailed are not compelling evidence for the claims of malfeasance.
- 1024core 8y ago
  > No, this is not some conspiracy theory by a few anecdotal players. I've been working in the search engine industry for more than 15 years (as in, worked on core ranking algorithms and other infrastructure for a long time). I've heard similar reports countless times about ranking algorithms that our team controlled, and it was all just speculation. Once again: Yelp has been around for 10+ years. By now, surely someone will have iron-clad proof that they paid to get bad reviews removed. I have not seen any.

thoughtexplorer 8y ago

> Either you pay for their premium services or a bunch of 1 star reviews start magically appearing on your business How do you square that claim given that both current and former Yelp employees say they do no such thing? How do you know those reviews are fake vs coincidence? I've heard a lot of anecdotes and conspiracies about this, but have never seen actual proof. No documents, recorded phone calls, court cases etc? And given how many people have worked at Yelp it's strange no one has blown the whistle yet if they engage in such practices. They would be an instant hero.

vikingcaffiene 8y ago
I square it by actually knowing people who've been affected. It's not like it was ambiguous or hard to figure out how it works. Its a VERY commonly known thing in the F&B industry and they all hate Yelp for it.
parthdesai 8y ago
There is a whole article on cbc about it. Here is the link: https://www.cbc.ca/news/business/yelp-accused-of-bullying-businesses-into-paying-for-better-reviews-1.2899308 https://www.cbc.ca/news/business/yelp-accused-of-bullying-bu...
- thoughtexplorer 8y ago
  Still no proof, just accusations. In fact the business owners say Yelp didn't actually say these things. "What I got without spoken direct words..." "The restaurateur says the representative didn’t blatantly tell Dloomy he could solve his problem by paying up, but he believes that was the underlying message" It sounds like motivated reasoning and applying an existing narrative to the advertising calls.
- istjohn 8y ago
  That article is hardly conclusive. There are plenty of salty business owners, and somewhat understandably. Yelp is far more proactive than, say, Amazon in policing reviews with its automated software. They do sometimes filter legitimate reviews, particularly when a reviewer has few other reviews on the site and is very flattering to the business. They do not want businesses to game the system by bribing customers or recruiting friends and family. But of course, sometimes this incorrectly flags legitimate positive reviews. And when simultaneous negative reviews don't get filtered, this is understandably frustrating for businesses. And it doesn't take much imagination for a slightly paranoid owner to wonder if Yelp's pushy sales efforts have a nefarious undertone. But this aggressive quality control is what makes Yelp ratings so much more useful than Amazon ratings. And if businesses can keep attracting positive reviews, especially from established reviewers on the platform, and perhaps more importantly, avoid negative reviews, their ratings will rise. And they will have to fight Yelp's slightly trigger-happy automated review moderation whether or not they give money to a Yelp sales rep.

kadendogthing 8y ago

Yeah yelp doesn't do this.