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Apple can be proud of using plastic recycled at 60 percent but a not easily serviceable computer will end up in a landfill way sooner than it should. What happ

Apple can be proud of using plastic recycled at 60 percent but a not easily serviceable computer will end up in a landfill way sooner than it should. What happens three years down the line when the device is out of warranty and the storage fails? Between paying an absurd amount of money to replace the whole board and getting a new one I bet most people will go with the landfill option. My Mac mini 2012 got a second life after I maxed out the ram and replaced the spinning rust. If a component fails I can easily replace it and squeeze a couple of years more out of it.

spiderfarmer 8y ago
As a counterpoint, when I wanted to sell my Mac mini after 5 years of 24/7 use, I found a buyer within one hour. Try that with any other maintainable PC.
- donarb 8y ago
  I am still using my Mini from 2012, and it runs the latest OS, Mojave.
  - rthille 8y ago
    Sadly, my 2010 MBP 17" is not Mojave compatible :sob:
    - miles 8y ago
      macOS Mojave Patcher Tool for Unsupported Macs http://dosdude1.com/mojave/ http://dosdude1.com/mojave/
- dehugger 8y ago
  Your counterpoint is a bit weak. You sold a 5 year old Mac Mini, the OP literally just wrote how the old Mac Mini held its value precisely because it could be upgraded with replaceable components, while the updated Mac Mini is not. I doubt a current gen model will hold its value nearly as well as the older models because parts cannot be replaced down the line.
  - ianferrel 8y ago
    I've never had trouble using craiglist as an upgrade path for any Mac, even the everything-soldered to the board Macbook Airs. Old Mac Minis didn't hold their value because they were upgradeable. All macs hold their value longer.
  - fpoling 8y ago
    The important thing is that RAM is upgradable. New memory technologies in 5 years may make all storage to use RAM slots.
rz2k 8y ago
I think holding Apple to higher standards for its environmental impact has a lot to do with why they innovate in this respect, and I think that it is appropriate, given their size as a manufacturer and their positioning as a premium product. Tightly integrated hardware, and efforts to develop software that improves performance of long-discontinued products does a lot to explain why Apple products are used much longer than alternatives. Compare a Mac mini to a budget mini tower, and it is difficult to argue that attaching an external Thunderbolt 3 drive in 2024 is worse for the environment, when the competing product will likely be in a landfill, due to difficult to diagnose hardware issues and there not being an easily understood recycling program.
- andrewvc 8y ago
  OK, sure, but why do they need to manufacture everything out of CNC'd billets of aluminum? That seems extremely wasteful.
  - saagarjha 8y ago
    You know exactly why: you don’t get the quality that Apple wants any other way. Supposedly they reuse the shavings, so it might not actually be as bad as you think.
    - mbreese 8y ago
      And when the machine is decommissioned, the aluminum from the chassis is easily recyclable...
  - jessewmc 8y ago
    This is one of the least wasteful things they do. The cuttings are recycled, and aluminum is one of the few materials that is more energy efficient to recycle than to mine/manufacture from scratch.
    - PascLeRasc 8y ago
      They also do CNCing pretty efficiently. The same piece of aluminum that makes an iMac screen bezel makes two wired Mac keyboards.
wufufufu 8y ago
Some Google searches indicate to me SSDs don't have a worrisome failure rate. If it happens to be a widespread problem for Apple products, there's precedent for them eventually having a replacement program. [1] [2] [1] https://www.apple.com/support/macbookpro-videoissues/ https://www.apple.com/support/macbookpro-videoissues/ [2] https://support.apple.com/en-my/iphone/repair/service/battery-power https://support.apple.com/en-my/iphone/repair/service/batter...
- cptaj 8y ago
  I think he means the inevitable failure of all storage devices. They will eventually break down like anything. If they could be replaced, the machine would keep on living.
rsync 8y ago
"What happens three years down the line when the device is out of warranty and the storage fails?" I was immediately dismayed to see that storage is not upgradeable/replaceable ... but now that the device has USB3 ports, would it not be possible to boot, and run, in a performant manner, from a USB3 thumb drive ? It seems to me that you should be able to keep these new USB3 minis in service "forever" with a little nub sticking out the back ... I guess I don't know what the state of installing OSX to boot from external media is, circa High Sierra ... ?
- jamesu 8y ago
  I've booted my iMac from an external thunderbolt SSD for years. Once you set it to boot from an external SSD, it will happily continue doing so. Much faster than the real slow hdd it came with at least, plus I don't have to open it up to clear out the data when I'm finally done with it. I still have yet to figure out how to create a similar hassle-free "live" booting environment which works across various hardware for windows and linux.
  - stcredzero 8y ago
    Once you set it to boot from an external SSD, it will happily continue doing so. What happens when the soldered-on SSD fails? Can you alter a setting in the PRAM or SMC to let the system completely disregard the failed SSD?
    - rangibaby 8y ago
      It remembers which drive it boots from so as long as you keep the external drive connected it should boot from it
      - bitL 8y ago
        Still, another dongle to carry (with Mac Mini it's not that important) and a loss of speed/added latency for e.g. video editing. With normal usage patterns even USB 3.0 external thumb/SSD drives were just fine.
remir 8y ago
I agree that Apple could make a more serviceable machine, but instead of throwing the Mini into the landfill, why not bring it to the Apple store so they can recycle it?
- ivm 8y ago
  Because many countries don't have one.
  - rleigh 8y ago
    And even when they do have one, it can be a day trip (or more) to visit. Onsite and courier options provided by other vendors such as Dell put Apple to shame.
stouset 8y ago
> What happens three years down the line when the device is out of warranty and the storage fails... This isn't the early 2000s. The Mac Mini has an SSD, and for the overwhelming majority of these machines it will easily outlive their useful life.

spiderfarmer 8y ago

As a counterpoint, when I wanted to sell my Mac mini after 5 years of 24/7 use, I found a buyer within one hour. Try that with any other maintainable PC.

donarb 8y ago
I am still using my Mini from 2012, and it runs the latest OS, Mojave.
- rthille 8y ago
  Sadly, my 2010 MBP 17" is not Mojave compatible :sob:
  - miles 8y ago
    macOS Mojave Patcher Tool for Unsupported Macs http://dosdude1.com/mojave/ http://dosdude1.com/mojave/
dehugger 8y ago
Your counterpoint is a bit weak. You sold a 5 year old Mac Mini, the OP literally just wrote how the old Mac Mini held its value precisely because it could be upgraded with replaceable components, while the updated Mac Mini is not. I doubt a current gen model will hold its value nearly as well as the older models because parts cannot be replaced down the line.
- ianferrel 8y ago
  I've never had trouble using craiglist as an upgrade path for any Mac, even the everything-soldered to the board Macbook Airs. Old Mac Minis didn't hold their value because they were upgradeable. All macs hold their value longer.
- fpoling 8y ago
  The important thing is that RAM is upgradable. New memory technologies in 5 years may make all storage to use RAM slots.

rz2k 8y ago

I think holding Apple to higher standards for its environmental impact has a lot to do with why they innovate in this respect, and I think that it is appropriate, given their size as a manufacturer and their positioning as a premium product. Tightly integrated hardware, and efforts to develop software that improves performance of long-discontinued products does a lot to explain why Apple products are used much longer than alternatives. Compare a Mac mini to a budget mini tower, and it is difficult to argue that attaching an external Thunderbolt 3 drive in 2024 is worse for the environment, when the competing product will likely be in a landfill, due to difficult to diagnose hardware issues and there not being an easily understood recycling program.

andrewvc 8y ago
OK, sure, but why do they need to manufacture everything out of CNC'd billets of aluminum? That seems extremely wasteful.
- saagarjha 8y ago
  You know exactly why: you don’t get the quality that Apple wants any other way. Supposedly they reuse the shavings, so it might not actually be as bad as you think.
  - mbreese 8y ago
    And when the machine is decommissioned, the aluminum from the chassis is easily recyclable...
- jessewmc 8y ago
  This is one of the least wasteful things they do. The cuttings are recycled, and aluminum is one of the few materials that is more energy efficient to recycle than to mine/manufacture from scratch.
  - PascLeRasc 8y ago
    They also do CNCing pretty efficiently. The same piece of aluminum that makes an iMac screen bezel makes two wired Mac keyboards.

wufufufu 8y ago

Some Google searches indicate to me SSDs don't have a worrisome failure rate. If it happens to be a widespread problem for Apple products, there's precedent for them eventually having a replacement program. [1] [2] [1] https://www.apple.com/support/macbookpro-videoissues/ https://www.apple.com/support/macbookpro-videoissues/ [2] https://support.apple.com/en-my/iphone/repair/service/battery-power https://support.apple.com/en-my/iphone/repair/service/batter...

cptaj 8y ago
I think he means the inevitable failure of all storage devices. They will eventually break down like anything. If they could be replaced, the machine would keep on living.

rsync 8y ago

"What happens three years down the line when the device is out of warranty and the storage fails?" I was immediately dismayed to see that storage is not upgradeable/replaceable ... but now that the device has USB3 ports, would it not be possible to boot, and run, in a performant manner, from a USB3 thumb drive ? It seems to me that you should be able to keep these new USB3 minis in service "forever" with a little nub sticking out the back ... I guess I don't know what the state of installing OSX to boot from external media is, circa High Sierra ... ?

jamesu 8y ago
I've booted my iMac from an external thunderbolt SSD for years. Once you set it to boot from an external SSD, it will happily continue doing so. Much faster than the real slow hdd it came with at least, plus I don't have to open it up to clear out the data when I'm finally done with it. I still have yet to figure out how to create a similar hassle-free "live" booting environment which works across various hardware for windows and linux.
- stcredzero 8y ago
  Once you set it to boot from an external SSD, it will happily continue doing so. What happens when the soldered-on SSD fails? Can you alter a setting in the PRAM or SMC to let the system completely disregard the failed SSD?
  - rangibaby 8y ago
    It remembers which drive it boots from so as long as you keep the external drive connected it should boot from it
    - bitL 8y ago
      Still, another dongle to carry (with Mac Mini it's not that important) and a loss of speed/added latency for e.g. video editing. With normal usage patterns even USB 3.0 external thumb/SSD drives were just fine.

remir 8y ago

I agree that Apple could make a more serviceable machine, but instead of throwing the Mini into the landfill, why not bring it to the Apple store so they can recycle it?

ivm 8y ago
Because many countries don't have one.
- rleigh 8y ago
  And even when they do have one, it can be a day trip (or more) to visit. Onsite and courier options provided by other vendors such as Dell put Apple to shame.

stouset 8y ago

> What happens three years down the line when the device is out of warranty and the storage fails... This isn't the early 2000s. The Mac Mini has an SSD, and for the overwhelming majority of these machines it will easily outlive their useful life.