4 ms·

You mean 13 lives. It has a 8% success rate.

by voidlogic 8y ago

jacurtis 8y ago
Regardless... it is no where even close to statistically significant.
- ALittleLight 8y ago
  But we might get the data to make statistically significant claims if we keep applying the protocol. By abandoning it, it seems we won't. If I were there patient and my options were medicated coma that possibly has an 8% chance of healing me and possibly has no benefit, I'd prefer that to the excruciating death by rabies I'd be facing otherwise.
- raverbashing 8y ago
  One success on top of a solid 100% fatality rate is extremely significant
  - lbriner 8y ago
    You need to read the comments. The whole point is that it was not necessarily a success because subsequent tests showed it didn't work, there are several reasons why Ms Giese might have survived including the reasons why previous survivors who didn't get the protocol also survived.
NeedMoreTea 8y ago
Of the 29 cases from 2005 to December 2014, "Therapy failed in all; the only survivor (Case No. 14) did not have neutralizing anti-rabies virus antibodies and likely did not have rabies" https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals/canadian-journal-of-neurological-sciences/article/critical-appraisal-of-the-milwaukee-protocol-for-rabies-this-failed-approach-should-be-abandoned/8A47C583B24B2B2E43248770F78CC35A/core-reader https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals/canadian-journal-of-... So where does 13 come from?
- raverbashing 8y ago
  Not sure about 13, but the "only one success" is old news https://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-5258433/Brazilian-teen-14-fifth-person-cured-rabies.html https://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-5258433/Brazilian...
  - vidarh 8y ago
    It's not clear even all of those were successes at all, though - at least a couple of the claimed successfully treated patients subsequently died. Several others had completed most or all of the PEP treatments, and it's not clear if the MP had anything to do with their survival, given other patients have survived without MP in similar circumstances.
- vorpalhex 8y ago
  This NCBI article claims 13: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4947331/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4947331/
  - vidarh 8y ago
    13 survivors total, not 13 saved by the Milwaukee protocol. Notably: > Prior to 2004, there were only five documented human survivors, all of whom had received the PEP, albeit incomplete or late [5] > In 2004, the first survivor without PEP was reported after this individual had undergone the MP. However, the use of the MP did not increase survival in subsequent cases [6]. Our patient was managed with aggressive supportive care without the MP or steroids. Our patient survived the acute phase of rabies encephalitis and was discharged after five months of intensive nursing care in the hospital. And: > Out of the seven reported rabies survivors until 2008, only the index case that used the MP did not receive PEP. Rabies virus was detected in only one case in all of the others that were diagnosed using only the rabies antibody [9]. Our case was diagnosed using both the rabies antibody and highly specific rabies antigen detection tests. The article points out a number of confounding factors that makes it hard to determine what saved the patient, including potential effects of use of PEP even if unsuccessful in stopping the disease completely (e.g. note that the virus itself was only found in one of the cases of survivors discussed by this article), the high level of other interventions to manage the disease, as well as the potential for genetic variations and the possibility that some of them didn't have Rabies in the first case

You mean 13 lives. It has a 8% success rate.

jacurtis 8y ago

Regardless... it is no where even close to statistically significant.

ALittleLight 8y ago
But we might get the data to make statistically significant claims if we keep applying the protocol. By abandoning it, it seems we won't. If I were there patient and my options were medicated coma that possibly has an 8% chance of healing me and possibly has no benefit, I'd prefer that to the excruciating death by rabies I'd be facing otherwise.
raverbashing 8y ago
One success on top of a solid 100% fatality rate is extremely significant
- lbriner 8y ago
  You need to read the comments. The whole point is that it was not necessarily a success because subsequent tests showed it didn't work, there are several reasons why Ms Giese might have survived including the reasons why previous survivors who didn't get the protocol also survived.

NeedMoreTea 8y ago

Of the 29 cases from 2005 to December 2014, "Therapy failed in all; the only survivor (Case No. 14) did not have neutralizing anti-rabies virus antibodies and likely did not have rabies" https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals/canadian-journal-of-neurological-sciences/article/critical-appraisal-of-the-milwaukee-protocol-for-rabies-this-failed-approach-should-be-abandoned/8A47C583B24B2B2E43248770F78CC35A/core-reader https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals/canadian-journal-of-... So where does 13 come from?

raverbashing 8y ago
Not sure about 13, but the "only one success" is old news https://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-5258433/Brazilian-teen-14-fifth-person-cured-rabies.html https://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-5258433/Brazilian...
- vidarh 8y ago
  It's not clear even all of those were successes at all, though - at least a couple of the claimed successfully treated patients subsequently died. Several others had completed most or all of the PEP treatments, and it's not clear if the MP had anything to do with their survival, given other patients have survived without MP in similar circumstances.
vorpalhex 8y ago
This NCBI article claims 13: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4947331/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4947331/
- vidarh 8y ago
  13 survivors total, not 13 saved by the Milwaukee protocol. Notably: > Prior to 2004, there were only five documented human survivors, all of whom had received the PEP, albeit incomplete or late [5] > In 2004, the first survivor without PEP was reported after this individual had undergone the MP. However, the use of the MP did not increase survival in subsequent cases [6]. Our patient was managed with aggressive supportive care without the MP or steroids. Our patient survived the acute phase of rabies encephalitis and was discharged after five months of intensive nursing care in the hospital. And: > Out of the seven reported rabies survivors until 2008, only the index case that used the MP did not receive PEP. Rabies virus was detected in only one case in all of the others that were diagnosed using only the rabies antibody [9]. Our case was diagnosed using both the rabies antibody and highly specific rabies antigen detection tests. The article points out a number of confounding factors that makes it hard to determine what saved the patient, including potential effects of use of PEP even if unsuccessful in stopping the disease completely (e.g. note that the virus itself was only found in one of the cases of survivors discussed by this article), the high level of other interventions to manage the disease, as well as the potential for genetic variations and the possibility that some of them didn't have Rabies in the first case