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> Is the cell really "more complicated" than the supercomputer? Let us ask a different question that may suggest a possible answer. How many different dynamic

> Is the cell really "more complicated" than the supercomputer? Let us ask a different question that may suggest a possible answer. How many different dynamic manufacturing processes occur inside a supercomputer as compared to the number of different manufacturing, transportation and communication processes that control those manufacturing and transportation processes occurring within any single living biological cell?

Retric 8y ago
Cells have a rather limited set of manufacturing processes. Mycoplasma mycoides only has 525 genes and we can cut tha down to 473 and end up with something that self replicates. https://www.nationalgeographic.com/science/phenomena/2016/04/21/we-built-the-worlds-simplest-cell-but-dunno-how-it-works/ https://www.nationalgeographic.com/science/phenomena/2016/04.... (I find it amusing how breathless they talk about the fact their where some unknowns in that list rather amusing.)
- oldandtired 8y ago
  Let me ask some more questions and see what insights we can obtain from them. Within each manufacturing process, how many different kinds of steps are there and how "complicated" is each step (the required processing that is required to do that step)? What kind of dynamic manufacturing infrastructures are created and then taken down within the cell for each of these processes?
  - Retric 8y ago
    That’s an ambiguous question. If you want to accurately simulate matter, the larger the block of matter the more processing power it takes. We think of DNA as more complex than a crystalline structure becase crystals have more order, but that’s abstracting away a lot of the details. Which means manufacturing a super computer is vastly more complex in terms of matter. In some ways we better understand how super computers are made, but we can also far more easily replicate cells than a supercomputer. So, again supper computers are more complex. In terms of the minimum amount of information to turn raw matter into a simple cell, again super computers take more information. I suspect you want some sort of third definion where cells are more complex, but that’s more begging the question than how things actually are.
    - oldandtired 8y ago
      When you get the chance have a listen to some of the discussions about organic chemical processes occurring in cells by Dr James Tour. From an engineering and manufacturing point of view, the processes that occur in a cell are far beyond what we are able to achieve in any of our engineering and manufacturing processes. It is not about simulating processes, it is about doing those processes.
      - Retric 8y ago
        We can manufacture DNA from 'scratch'. That means as long as we have the sequence we can largely use those same processes. Sure, we don't necessarily understand what's going on, but neither did our ancestors you first manufactured steel etc etc. Protean folding is very complex to simulate. But, so is even a hydrogen atom starting from quantum mechanic equations. Saying we can abstract away that hydrogen atom does not mean the complexity disappears. Further from a QM standpoint protean folding is really slow, it's a complex dance like plate tectonics even if it's blindingly fast from our viewpoint.

Retric 8y ago

Cells have a rather limited set of manufacturing processes. Mycoplasma mycoides only has 525 genes and we can cut tha down to 473 and end up with something that self replicates. https://www.nationalgeographic.com/science/phenomena/2016/04/21/we-built-the-worlds-simplest-cell-but-dunno-how-it-works/ https://www.nationalgeographic.com/science/phenomena/2016/04.... (I find it amusing how breathless they talk about the fact their where some unknowns in that list rather amusing.)

oldandtired 8y ago
Let me ask some more questions and see what insights we can obtain from them. Within each manufacturing process, how many different kinds of steps are there and how "complicated" is each step (the required processing that is required to do that step)? What kind of dynamic manufacturing infrastructures are created and then taken down within the cell for each of these processes?
- Retric 8y ago
  That’s an ambiguous question. If you want to accurately simulate matter, the larger the block of matter the more processing power it takes. We think of DNA as more complex than a crystalline structure becase crystals have more order, but that’s abstracting away a lot of the details. Which means manufacturing a super computer is vastly more complex in terms of matter. In some ways we better understand how super computers are made, but we can also far more easily replicate cells than a supercomputer. So, again supper computers are more complex. In terms of the minimum amount of information to turn raw matter into a simple cell, again super computers take more information. I suspect you want some sort of third definion where cells are more complex, but that’s more begging the question than how things actually are.
  - oldandtired 8y ago
    When you get the chance have a listen to some of the discussions about organic chemical processes occurring in cells by Dr James Tour. From an engineering and manufacturing point of view, the processes that occur in a cell are far beyond what we are able to achieve in any of our engineering and manufacturing processes. It is not about simulating processes, it is about doing those processes.
    - Retric 8y ago
      We can manufacture DNA from 'scratch'. That means as long as we have the sequence we can largely use those same processes. Sure, we don't necessarily understand what's going on, but neither did our ancestors you first manufactured steel etc etc. Protean folding is very complex to simulate. But, so is even a hydrogen atom starting from quantum mechanic equations. Saying we can abstract away that hydrogen atom does not mean the complexity disappears. Further from a QM standpoint protean folding is really slow, it's a complex dance like plate tectonics even if it's blindingly fast from our viewpoint.